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Author Topic: Brainstorming about tools  (Read 9800 times)

BlckKnght

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Brainstorming about tools
« on: February 19, 2010, 07:22:03 pm »

I think there should be many more tools for dwarves to use in DF. This is not a new idea.  There have been numerous other threads about tools for use in workshops or to be carried by various professional dwarves and used as improvised weapons.  Here are some of the more interesting ones I've found in my searching (though there are many more). A very recent one is here.

I would like for this thread to be a place we can all brainstorm what different tools could be useful for various Dwarf or Adventurer mode jobs, and how they would be made (especially what materials would be allowed). I'd rather we not spend time arguing about whether an expanded set of tools would add fun complexity or annoying micromanagement to Dwarf mode, or about what tools are important enough to include.  Lets add everying that fits within the DF technology base (which is more or less what was available around 1400 in Europe). I've included some things that are more likely to be constructions, but which are sufficiently "tool-like" (e.g. they do the same job as a hand tool, just faster or better in some way).

To save a lot of redundant typing, any tool without materials listed next to it below should be assumed to be made with metal and wood parts (e.g. a metal head and a wooden handle) at a blacksmith's shop. Items with a * require a metal that can hold an edge. Bronze is probably the softest material that would be good for those, though perhaps low quality versions could be made with copper or even stone blades. I've ordered the list in the same order that dwarven professions are shown in the unit list (as listed here in dwarffortresswiki).


Miner
  Pick*
  Mattock*
  Shovel (can have a wooden head)
  Hand-drilling bit (iron or steel) or drill-wedges (wood)
  Sledge hammer
  Geologist's hammer

Woodworkers
  Hand axe* or hatchet
  Axe*
  Adze*
  Drawknife*
  Hand saw*
  Two-man (two-dwarf?) saw*
  Saw mill (a construction rather than a tool, perhaps as described here)
  Wood carving knife* or Utility knife
  Wood chisels* and Gouges
  Mallet (can have a wooden head)
  Drill*
  Claw hammer
  Splitting maul*
  Wedges (metal or wood)
  Sledgehammer
  Jig (wood, metal or stone, suggested by Impaler[WrG])
  File (metal, suggested for this trade by Impaler[WrG])
  Vice (wood or metal, suggested by Impaler[WrG])
  Square (wood or metal, suggested by Impaler[WrG])

Stoneworkers
  Stone chisel*
  Mallet (can have a wooden head)
  Stonemason's hammer
  Trowel (for spreading mortar and plaster if they are added to the game)
  Plumb-bob (stone or metal, plus a rope, suggested by Silverionmox)
  Jig (wood, metal or stone, suggested by Impaler[WrG])
  Square (wood or metal, suggested by Impaler[WrG])

Rangers
  Weapons of various sorts (projectile weapons and spears especially)
  Animal collar (can be leather, cloth or metal)

Metalsmiths
  Anvils (iron)
  Tongs and Pliers
  Forging hammer
  Sledge hammer
  Peening hammer
  Trip hammer (a construction, rather than exactly a tool, this would require power from a wind or water mill)
  Bellows (leather)
  Metalworking chisel* (the tool should be made of metal harder than the item being worked on)
  Coin dies (iron or steel)
  Swage block (metal)
  Draw plate (metal)
  Crucibles (made of refactory clay, if such ceramics are added)
  Sand casts (sand, water)
  Hacksaw*
  Files and Rasps (metal)
  Grindstone or Whetstone (especially hard types of stone)
  Molds (soft stone or plaster, based on a suggestion by Andeerz)
 
Jeweler
  Grinding wheel or Lap (iron, steel, hard stone, or diamond)

Bone carver
  Bone saw*
  Bone carving knife*
  Grinding wheel (stone or metal)
 
Clothier
  Scissors* or Shears
  Utility knife*
  Measuring tape (cloth or leather)
  Needles (bone or metal)
 
Glassmaker
  Blowpipe (not the weapon, a tool for glassblowing, made of metal)
  Pontil AKA Ponty (a metal rod)
  Shears (of any metal, as they don't need to be very sharp compared to other industries)
  Tongs
 
Leatherworker
  Shears*
  Punches and Stamps
  Mallet (leather, wood or metal)
  Heavy needles (metal, maybe bone)

Stone crafter
  Stone chisel*
  Files and Rasps
 
Weaver
  Scissors* or Shears
 
Wood crafter
  Any carpentry tools
 
Strand extractor
  Tweezers (metal, suggested by Silverionmox)

Fish cleaner
  Various knives*
 
Fish dissector
  Tweezers (metal, suggested for this trade by Andeerz)
  Knife* or scalpel (suggested by Andereerz)
 
Fisherdwarf
  Fishing spear (wood, bone or metal head, wooden shaft)
  Fishing rod (wood)
  Fishing line (silk?)
  Fishing hooks (metal or bone)
  Nets (cloth or maybe leather)
  Gaff
 
Brewer
  Brewing kettle (copper or other corrosion resistant metal)
  Wine press (wood and a mechanism, though perhaps this should be part of the workshop)
  Ladle and other stirring implements (metal or wood)
 
Butcher
  Cleaver*
  Various other sorts of knives*
 
Cheese maker
  Cheesecloth (cloth, obviously)
  Knife*
 
Cook
  Chef's knife*
  Lots of other knives*
  Pots and Pans (coper or other heat-conducting, non-toxic metal, or ceramics)
 
Dyer
  Ladle and stirring implements (metal or wood)
  Mortar and Pestle (stone)
 
Grower
  Hoe
  Mattock*
  Plow* (metal cutting blade, wood construction, leather or rope for straps to a draft animal)
  Rake (can be all wood)
  Shovel (can be all wood)
  Trowel (can be all wood)
  Pitchfork (can be all wood)
  Sickle*
  Scythe*
 
Herbalist
  Sickle*
  Scythe*
 
Lye maker, Milker, Miller, Potash maker, Soaper
  Nothing?

Tanner
  Knives* or scraping tools
 
Thresher
  Flail (wood or metal)
  Press (for sweet pods and other liquid plant extracts, wood and a mechanism)
 
Wood burner
  Axe*
  Shovel (can be all wood)
  Splitting maul*
  Wedges (metal or wood)
  Sledgehammer
 
Mechanic
  Wrench
  Pliers
  Calipers (wood or metal, suggested by Andeerz)
  Other metal, wood or stonecrafting tools

Pump operator
  Nothing?
 
Siege engineer
  Carpenter's hammer
 
Siege operator
  Wedges or shims (made of any reasonable material)
  Crowbar
  Stonemason's hammer (for rounding off catapult ammo)

Administrators and architects
  Pen or quills (metal or feathers)
  Abacus (wood, bone or metal, suggested by Silverionmox)
 
Cleaning tools
  Broom (wood and straw)
  Mop (wood and cloth)
  Shovel (for Snow or other messes, can be all wood, suggested for snow by Safe-Keeper)
 
Personal hygiene tools
  Scissors*
  Razor*
  Comb (bone, metal, or certain kinds of stone)
  Brush (wood or bone with plant fiber or animal hair bristles)
 
Food service tools
  Plates, bowls, mugs, goblets, wineskins (ceramic, wood, stone, metal, or leather)
  Spoons and Forks (wood, stone, or metal)
  Carving knife*



So, what have I missed?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 01:07:05 pm by BlckKnght »
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Silverionmox

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 07:40:04 pm »

Plumb-bob and spirit level for masons and architects, tweezers for strand extractors, whisker for cooks, and of course an abacus for the hoardmaster.

The doctor traditionally has lots of special tools.
Astrologers, astronomers and scouts could use telescopes.
Entertainers need tools too (face paint, stilts, masks, etc.)
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 11:02:38 pm »

Jig for Carpentry, Masonry and Mechanic (wood or metal)
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 11:04:35 pm by Impaler[WrG] »
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Pilsu

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 04:22:29 am »

Picking berries and roots doesn't really use sickles and scythes
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 06:30:41 am »

Shovels will be useful if/when snow starts to actually act like snow. You don't clear snow very well with picks and axes :P .

New category, admittedly pretty pie-in-the-sky right now:

Climbing
  • Climbing harness. Don't know how much they had in the way of this in the 1400's, but since the dwarves are such a stone-adapted race, I think one might make the point that they'd be ahead of their time when it comes to rock climbing.
  • Belaying gear. Basically a mechanism that's attached to your harness and which the rope runs through in such a way that you can use it to generate friction by holding the rope in a certain way.
  • "Climbing picks" for climbing on ice.
  • Some sort of tools for placing safety measures as you climb?

More on climbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22JRruftFrk
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BlckKnght

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 02:49:13 pm »

Plumb-bob and spirit level for masons and architects, tweezers for strand extractors, whisker for cooks, and of course an abacus for the hoardmaster.
Spirit levels and cooking whisks are both too modern to fit in with DF technology (being invented in the 17th and 19th centuries, respectively). The rest of these ideas are good and I've added them to the list.

Quote
The doctor traditionally has lots of special tools.
Astrologers, astronomers and scouts could use telescopes.
Entertainers need tools too (face paint, stilts, masks, etc.)
Telescopes were invented in the early 17th century, so they're out of our technology window.  As for medical equipment and entertainment gear, I think I'll hold off on them until we see how those jobs get added to the game before adding them.

Jig for Carpentry, Masonry and Mechanic (wood or metal)
That's a good idea, and I've added Jigs to the wood- and stone-working sections (mechanics include them by reference)

.
Picking berries and roots doesn't really use sickles and scythes
No, they wouldn't be necessary for all plant gathering jobs, but I think they'd come in very handy when harvesting Longland Grass and Rope Reed and possibly for any of the other "vine" or "weed" plants. I don't know if there could be a way for dwarves to only harvest the items they have appropriate tools for, but that would be the best solution.

Shovels will be useful if/when snow starts to actually act like snow. You don't clear snow very well with picks and axes :P .
I'll add shovels to the cleaning section.  I imagine that they'll also be needed in that role if animals ever start producing waste products (since livestock tends to hang out in the legendary dining rooms).

Quote
New category, admittedly pretty pie-in-the-sky right now:

Climbing
  • Climbing harness. Don't know how much they had in the way of this in the 1400's, but since the dwarves are such a stone-adapted race, I think one might make the point that they'd be ahead of their time when it comes to rock climbing.
  • Belaying gear. Basically a mechanism that's attached to your harness and which the rope runs through in such a way that you can use it to generate friction by holding the rope in a certain way.
  • "Climbing picks" for climbing on ice.
  • Some sort of tools for placing safety measures as you climb?

I think from a manufacturing technology standpoint, pitons, crampons and ice axes would all be ok, but I don't think that the techniques for using those tools were developed prior to 1400 (or even very close to that date). While a few mountains were summited in the middle ages (such as Rochemelon in the Italian Alps, which was climbed in 1358), very little mountaineering was done prior to the 18th century. Specialized climbing harnesses are certainly anachronistic, though dwarves could probably tie a basic harness out of ropes if they are given the ability to perform technical climbs in the future. I think for now I'll leave the climbing tools out of the list, since dwarves do not yet climb (and while they also don't use plates or utensils, they do at least eat).
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Gazz

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 03:54:25 pm »

No, they wouldn't be necessary for all plant gathering jobs, but I think they'd come in very handy when harvesting Longland Grass and Rope Reed and possibly for any of the other "vine" or "weed" plants. I don't know if there could be a way for dwarves to only harvest the items they have appropriate tools for, but that would be the best solution.
Considering that dwarves gather only very few units of stuff, a simple dagger or knife would be more than adequate and also useful for cooking/butchery.
One-use tools can be pretty annoying.
Now for a Sim-Elf game, plant gathering might be a bigger issue. Dwarves are more likely to forget about tools and rip out the whole plant. =)

For large scale harvesting, sickles / scythes obviously make sense and they always double as makeshift weapons.
(as do many tools)


Mechanics would definitely use hammers (for metal bolts / rivets) and a range of woodworking tools because they're dealing with (for instance) fitting axles.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 04:02:58 pm by Gazz »
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Krakow Sam

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 07:25:17 pm »

Fish dissectors (and animal dissectors) would use tweezers and a knife or scalpel. As would dwarven surgeons, actually (That and pitch/blood buckets).
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Andeerz

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 01:17:49 am »

If and when boats are implemented:
sextant
compass
astrolabe
various boating doodads...

Tanner:
alum and/or vegetable oils of certain plants to tan leather (http://www.mastrotto.com/jsp/en/tanneryhistory/index.jsp)
are scraping implements all that is needed for pre-tanning preparation of raw hides?

If more realistic ore processing is implemented (perhaps add to a miner's job?):
pans or washing tables (workshop) for gravity concentrating in extracting some metals from ore (like gold: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_extraction#Gold_Refining_and_Parting)
perhaps a workshop dedicated to crushing ore into smelt-able components

Metalsmith:
Double hammer (a workshop maybe?) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_hammer)
rivets (more of a construction material than a tool... but, meh)

Furnace Operator (could depend on smelter construction, i.e. blast furnace vs. bloomery):
a companion pump-operator dwarf if smelter not powered by machinery(not really a tool, I know)
bellows (leather + wood or metal or rock)
tongs
hammer for beating out slag from blooms (can be water or wind mill powered, or just be the previously suggested trip-hammer)
 
Alchemist's workshop (if it ever gets a good use, perhaps for production of economically valuable chemicals or chemical metal extraction or something??? even some kinds of soap?):
retort
calcinator
alembic
mortar and pestle
heat source
balance
hourglass

A new category, probably could be included in weaving... Wool Processing:
for scouring wool: vegetable oils plus alkaline salts, or soap for preprocessing wool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wool, http://stronghold2.heavengames.com/history/wool)
I don't know how lanolin is obtained, though it probably was known about since ancient Greek times (http://www.kabanaskincare.com/Lanolin,%20demythologized.pdf) so there must be a way...

Soaper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_making#Medieval_history):
a heat source (burning wood?) if using the hot method of soap making
molds
spoons
salt

Mechanic and mason:
calipers

« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 01:58:27 am by Andeerz »
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 06:59:24 am »

I like Calipers and some of the Alchemy stuff but most of the rest are diverging off into ingredients rather then tools
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Andeerz

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 03:09:25 pm »

true... whoops.  But but but... perhaps there should be a separate thread on ingredients?  :3  Maybe not...
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Gazz

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2010, 06:09:10 am »

Depends on how tools and ingredients are organised in the files.

If a recipe for "brick wall" reads like
1 stone (consumed)
1 mortar (consumed)
1 trowel (not consumed)

then including possible ingredients would make sense. Going into actual recipes would expand the thread beyond any managable size, though.
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Impaler[WrG]

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 08:11:17 am »

Picked these up from Wurm Online pedia (WurmPedia)

CARPENTRY

File (Bronze or harder metal, preferably Iron)
Pelt (I'm assuming this was the medieval sandpaper, though I find that a bit doubtful)

Square (again useful for Masons and Engineers)
Vice (wood or metal probably rope as well)

Lathe (a reciprocating bow lathe seems to be the dominant lathe of the middle ages and would be a piece of furniture rather then a hand tool)
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Andeerz

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2010, 01:42:00 am »

metalcrafter:

soapstone dies (for low melting temp metal molds)
molds for metal statues and bells and stuff?
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BlckKnght

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Re: Brainstorming about tools
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 01:34:49 pm »

I've added a few of the suggestions to the list at the top.  I've left off the alchemy equipment for now because there isn't any profession that would use it in the current game, but it would be good to add again later if the professions expand.
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