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[Lost Requiem]

Are there going to be any future plans for the purpose of the Alchemist's Lab outside of making the soap? I was thinking it over for a while and decided on a few things. Once the whole venom, bacteria and all that hooplah is added in the next build, couldn't you use the lab for formulating vaccines and making ointments and tinctures to cure poisons, heal rotting tissue, slow bleeding, suppress stomach acids (Cure for cave adaption) or numb pain? Or how about, as a twist, also being able to make poisons to stun, maim, or kill targets with?

[Impaler[WrG]]

I've always felt Soap is insufficiently advanced to even justify being made at the Alchemist shop, it was not a rare or secret formula by any stretch of the imagination nor dose it require any of the alchemist tools to make (glass bottles, burners retorts etc etc).  I'd move it to the farmers workshop or Ashery on general principles.

When I hear the word Alchemy I think of early chemistry, acids like Aqua fortis, Oil of Vitriol, Aqua regia, Cooperas, purified oils and scents.  In other words real Alchemy and valuable substances that would require rare and or secret knowledge to make in a Medieval setting.  Other industries should make use of the things the alchemist makes but usually as an enhancement then as a prerequisite.  I call this the 'Better living through Alchemy' rule, the alchemist 'buffs' other industries by making things that others can use, for example acids could be used to engrave metal faster and with higher quality then normal.

Herbal medicine and other plant derived things (poisons, inks, dyes) would probably be the domain of the Herbalist who might gain a shop in which they process the plants they have found.  The Alchemist might also make some plant derived products but they would be more sophisticated them those of an Herbalist (probably use the Herbalist potions as a starting ingredient).

Lastly the ever controversial black-powder would clearly fall under the domain of Alchemy but it should not be 'The' defining product, just one of many things the alchemist makes.  If the ultimate decision is made not too include it then a less potent product for military usage could be included in its place.

[Capntastic]

Are there going to be any future plans for the purpose of the Alchemist's Lab outside of making the soap?

Yes.

# Req138, ALCHEMY AND HEALING, (Future): Extracts are not used for anything right now, except cooking. Antivenom used to be in but was removed for a bit. All of this can go back in and be extended, making the alchemist's workshop worthwhile rather than a soap factory.

# Bloat269, ALCHEMY, (Future): Various uses and reactions of chemicals, acids etc.

And a search brings up quite a few threads with various discussions.

But yeah, it's all planned.

[Sithlordz]

for example acids could be used to engrave metal faster and with higher quality then normal.

Is that honestly the first thing you thought of when you considered 'acid that can partly-dissolve metal'?

[TheBeardyMan]

Some more ideas for the alchemy lab:

   Extract arsenic from orpiment or realgar.
   Extract mercury from cinnabar.
   Low temperature silver smelting using mercury.
   Extract phosphorus although the first discovered source of phosphorus is unlikely to be included.

[Nikov]

Acid-etching is a valid form of glass and metal work. Stencil, paste, set, clean, de-stencil.

I would like to see the traditional alchemy task of purifying precious metals using aqua regia (sp?). Basically its a mix of suphuric and nitric acid that allows you to dissolve gold, then condense it back out minus all the impurities, creating the 99.9999% grade gold that would be worth so very much. If you could imagine trading a solid, purified gold bar to a caravan for an entire wagon's worth of food, instead of fiddling with privately-owned coins, you could see the usefulness of that reaction. Fine Gold Bars would be hoarded away in very dwarfy ways to keep from potential thieves and as a safeguard against merchants leaving your fortress to starve with wagons full of food but no exports that interested them.

[Shades]

Is that honestly the first thing you thought of when you considered 'acid that can partly-dissolve metal'?

Elves don't wear metal armours anyway so I can't see a use for it....

[G-Flex]

The alchemist's workshop is actually not even in the next version; because of soapmaking being the only thing that's really done there, it was removed (for now) in favor of a soapmaker's workshop.

That being said, the alchemist's shop isn't a TERRIBLE place to put soapmaking. I mean, you're performing slightly-hazardous chemistry using substances from a couple different sources. Seems like the alchemist's shop would be likely to have the equipment necessary.

[sweitx]

Is that honestly the first thing you thought of when you considered 'acid that can partly-dissolve metal'?

Elves don't wear metal armours anyway so I can't see a use for it....

... You can't see ANY OTHER WAY to apply said acid on elves?
Like, a more DIRECT way?

It's like that head-on commerical.
Apply directly to the elves.

[Sithlordz]

I'd like to imagine it being the Dwarven variant of Cillit Bang.  Limestone, vermin, ground-in elves! They may be a tough job for other weapons, but it's no trouble for...
CILLIT BANG CILLIT BANG CILLIT CILLIT CILLIT BANG! <3

[Jacob/Lee]

Isn't alchemy turning junk into gold or something like that?

[Keldor]

Is that honestly the first thing you thought of when you considered 'acid that can partly-dissolve metal'?

Elves don't wear metal armours anyway so I can't see a use for it....

Etching images into elves?  You could brand 'em and send them back as an example!

[G-Flex]

Jacob/Lee: That's a rather simplistic view of only one part of it.

Transmuting metals was part of its core philosophy in a lot of ways/places, but there were other equally-important things (like finding the elixir of life, or a universal solvent), and it went beyond any of those anyway. Some of these pursuits were even described as being used metaphorically sometimes, for the more spiritual aspects.

Basically, alchemy was the pseudoscientific precursor to what we know as "chemistry", although it was also a spiritual sort of folk discipline. Of course, a lot of this varies depending on the setting.


DF's alchemy needn't necessarily be described as "alchemy", even. Toady has said he's basing it off the Middle Eastern/Muslim style, which makes sense, considering how advanced that area was at time; by the late 9th century, they had already effectively moved beyond "alchemy" into a more scientific form of chemistry, as there were several prominent men refuting the basic principles of Alchemy (transmutation, the four classical elements, etc.) while developing the scientific method, experimental processes, and most of the basic forms of chemical apparatus. Basically, any word in English that's remotely connected to chemistry (or math, sometimes) that begins with "al-" comes from Arabic.

Of course, in fantasy fiction terms, "alchemy" often refers to people actually doing things like creating elixirs and magical potions and transmuting things, and for all we know, DF will have that too.

[mickel]

... You can't see ANY OTHER WAY to apply said acid on elves?
Like, a more DIRECT way?

But then you don't need acid that works on metals. You only need acid that works on elves.  Much easier to handle.

[eerr]

Maybe we can Purify mercury at the alchemist's lab.