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[Percival]

I wanted to start a new thread on this topic. First, because I'm interested in sparking a discussion on it, and second, because the only other similar topic I found had a laundry-list format I didn't like.

I'm looking for personal stories and personal opinions, as well as opinions on those opinions. I am not trying to establish a consensus, just to spark discussion and hear what people have decided for themselves.

Narrative is the best format, but here are some questions to help focus:

Do you modify the game in any way?
How?
Do you consider it cheating? If so, why?
Do you consider it a fair tweak? If so, why?
Has your opinion on this changed in the past? If so, what were the reasons / problems you encountered?

This can lead to long posts. That's fine with me. I'm going to use a bullet-point style to at least make my post seem more focused.

Here I go:

-I consider a mod cheating if the loss of in-game consequences outweighs the benefit.

-I personally don't consider cheating to be fun. The complexity of the decisions you have to make in DF is what makes it engaging for me.

-My main reason for modding is FPS. It has often dipped into a single digit for me. Single digit FPS is not fun. The first steps I took were to turn off weather and temperature in the Init. After experimenting, I find that turning off weather is mostly okay, if I need to (it doesn't seem to help too much, anyway), but turning off temperature seems too much to me, especially if magma is involved.

-Currently, I have decided to mod the raws for stone layers. Right now I have it so that certain layer stones (e.g. Diorite, Gabbro, Granite, Marble) will evaporate once they are mined out of a wall. This means that mining these stones produces a red cloud of stone vapor rather than a piece of stone lying around. I have been a bit haphazard in modding the layers, partly because I'm concerned about not having any usable stone on some maps, but I'll eventually get to a good balance if I work on it more. Supposedly this keeps my FPS rate up. I haven't been able to actually verify this yet. I'm not quite sure if its the massive amount of stone on my map that weighs me down as much as the pathfinding issues that massive networks of mineshafts creates. Could be both. I'm not sure right now.

-Making this mod means I've had to make another mod: adding the [FLUX] tag to an otherwise worthless rock (e.g. Orthoclase, Microcline, etc.), since I set my real flux stones to evaporate. My goal right now is not to implement this unless I've embarked on a map that would have otherwise had flux.

-This brings up an issue for me I haven't resolved yet. Another tactic I use for keeping up fps is embarking on small maps. Currently I'm on a 2x2. It does seem to work, but the problem is that it seriously limits the amount of resources I have access to. I'm beginning to wonder if this challenge isn't somewhat unfair, since I would prefer to use a larger map if I could, and I've been contemplating making changes. The first would be to [FLUX] non-flux stone more often, so I don't have to worry about finding flux when I'm finding tiny embark spaces. The other is upping other resources: somehow increasing the amount of wood and/or lignite and bituminous coal to appear on a map. For example, it has often been suggested that it would be more realistic for coal stones to appear as a layer, rather than in veins. Maybe I could make a change along those lines.

-Ultimately these are my choices and my choices alone, but I'm curious what other people think. Granted that many like myself believe that the complexity of the challenge makes the game worth playing, it's beginning to seem to me that the game is often both unrealistic and unfair in some respects, especially when it comes to finding resources. Must I accept everything that comes at me? What makes DF properly balanced? How much balance is fun? Actually, a little consequence-free sandbox play really hits the spot now and then.

-The other consideration is that I just don't have the time to generate map after map and play fortress after fortress to experiment with everything. This game is beautifully vast, but in many ways there is not enough time in a human lifetime to explore everything. Maybe modifying is an acceptable way to gather the features you find the most fun all in the same place. Or is that a little too convenient.

So I really don't think there are right answers to these questions. What is everyone's take on these issues?

[Zavior]

The main reason I use mods is for the added challenge. The military aspect of the game is a bit lacking at the moment.. Goblins are of completely no challenge whatsoever, orcs(the mod by rysith) add some challenge to the game. I also have modded in ogres who are roughly equal to orcs.

Are these fair tweaks/cheating?
I feel these changes are more of adding content that is missing for the moment. I dont like modding the stones to provide endless supply of magma safe materials - though I do feel that there ought to be more magma safe materials for mechanism than just bauxite.
As a side effect of my added enemies, I tend to have more iron/steel than usually. I dont particularly mind this, there always comes a point at which you have enough of everything.. except magma.

[Kanil]

Singleplayer, do whatever you want.

I cheat, edit, mod, use tools to solve anything I find excessively annoying to the point of ruining my enjoyment.

Which isn't particularly much. Save scum from time to time. Maybe heal something injured that's vital (a visiting liaison, for example.)

[Mapleleaf]

I do quite some minor tweaking to my game, I usually edit stuff when I think it's not realistic.

For instance, I hate the charcoal making where you need to burn one log to get one charcoal. So I decided to crank it up a bit: 4 pieces of wood for 10 pieces of charcoal. Seems logical to me, and it makes the game more enjoyable for me. I don't exactly consider it cheating as much as I consider it balancing. It'd be cheating if it didn't cost me any wood at all.

[Talanic]

I did a bunch of things - one of which is your 'stone evaporates', which I typically use on stones that I don't want rather than on the valuable ones.  It's for convenience and lag management, not challenge.  I'd do the same to leathers, pig tail, and silk cloths to get rid of those items too, but haven't found how. 

I also toyed around with a simple reaction that made rock crystal.  It's nigh-useless; crystal glass really isn't worth much except for the player's aesthetic preferences, and if you can make it you already can make raw glass for skilling up your jewelers. 

[Grimlocke]

I mod out challenges that annoy me, I mod in challenges that I like.

For example, I mod out the loamy sand, sandy clay, etc. layers because I find rejecting an otherwise perfect site for a lack of sand tedious. I also modded in a small alchemy system that lets me grow inedible plants that can be used to produce crystal glass, firesafe materials, and a metal similar to but slightly weaker than steel.

For added challenge I increased the strength of allmost every wild annimal, modded in some creature of my own, and added a cave dwelling race of demons to raid my fortress.

I also added a larger diversity of weapons (polearms, twohanded weapons for dwarves, etc) and removed a number of default ones that I just didnt like.

EDIT, to the above post: set leather and silk boiling points in the creature raws. Use the wiki to find the right tags. You cant set temperature values on plants yet, though this is bound to change next version.

[Noble Digger]

I do a lot of what Grimlocke does. Three major things I won't really start out forts without anymore, even if I want a "legit" fort.

* Smelter reaction for turning 3 iron bars -> iron mechanisms

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:IRON_MECHANISMS]
[NAME:cast iron mechanisms]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:3:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TRAPPARTS:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[FUEL]* Giant Cave Spiders not infinitesimally rare:

Code: [Select]

[FREQUENCY:100]
[POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
[CLUSTER_NUMBER:5:10]* Expanded coin-worthy metals list to include billon, electrum, and platinum:

Code: [Select]

[CURRENCY_BY_YEAR]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:BILLON:3]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:ELECTRUM:10]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[CURRENCY:PLATINUM:20]

[Blargityblarg]

I removed all large clusters, and replaced them with small clusters, except for Magnetite, which is now a vein. This is because a) I didn't think that there was enough metal and coal about and b) I wanted to be able to put all my fortress levels right together, for ease of z-level changing.

[PsyberianHusky]

Its all about your personal enjoyment, do whatever you need to to make it enjoyable, the only cache I would say exist is if you post a story of something impressive that happened, its fair to let us all know what conditions made it happen

[piecewise]

I occasionally make superdwarves who don't have to eat, sleep or drink. I do it mostly to save time if I have a specific construction in mind. Cheating? Yeah, little bit, but it's not like it's hard to get a fortress up and running with food water and drink, it just slows things down. 

[Itnetlolor]

Whether I'm working on a project or have a ton of dwarves in my fort, I use DwarfTherapist to keep track of the moods and current jobs of all my dwarves. I also use it for mass-assigning. Much less time.

And in case I am looking for a particular material, Vis-fortress's reveal system (provided I can measure accurately) is a nice way to hunt for a material I need/want without having to ruin my save by loading reveal. Nice way to spot those clusters and veins and even looking for dominant material colors without corrupting the save with an ugly detailed geology map. It ruins the immersive quality of the fort.

Of course, I would limit my use of them for both the cheat factor as well as resource cost on my machine.

[Skorpion]

I've taken to using dwarf therapist because it just makes things quicker. I also enabled plant gathering on the kids to make them useful.

However, that's the limit.

[Flaede]

* Smelter reaction for turning 3 iron bars -> iron mechanisms

Code: [Select]

[REACTION:IRON_MECHANISMS]
[NAME:cast iron mechanisms]
[SMELTER]
[REAGENT:3:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TRAPPARTS:NO_SUBTYPE:METAL:IRON]
[FUEL]

Not commenting on the other two, but while I agree with this problem, I take a different route fixing it. You can make metal be allowed for mechanism creation. So I add such a metal, and use a reaction to turn iron INTO that metal. (whatever reaction sounds fair atm) Then my mechanic makes metal mechanisms from my magmaproof mechanism metal, "magmacite".

it makes more sense this way, because you get quality modifiers on your metal mechanisms, and they can't get made without an actual relevant skillset.

[Greiger]

Do you modify the game in any way?

Yes I mod.

How?

I add creatures, weapons, metals, ores, plants, whatever I feel like.

Do you consider it cheating? If so, why?
Do you consider it a fair tweak? If so, why?

I don't consider my mods cheating, but I don't consider it the same as vanilla either.  And I try to balance the stuff I make.  My dragonman fortress race is human size, has better natural attacks than others (1:2 claw attack and 1:3 bite both set as main attacks) and is heat and fire immune to anything weaker than a pyroclown.  But on the other hand have the carnivore tag, preventing them from easily getting food from farming, easily freeze to death outside of the tropics at night, and have a personality more prone to anger that seems to increase the number of berserkers.

And some things actively make the game harder.  Large wilderness creatures as strong as minor megabeasts exist, making adventuring a challenge in more savage areas, as well as forcing one to keep a closer eye on one's fortress mode hunters than normal.  I consider it all fair, but it makes it a different game in some respects than vanilla.  Some things are easier, some things are harder.

Has your opinion on this changed in the past? If so, what were the reasons / problems you encountered?

Not so much in the past.  The new version may require me to rethink some things.  My Dracon for example will be redone completely from scratch, to take advantage of the new castes system. Dracon are supposed to come in all colorations as D&D dragons do, complete with strengths and weaknesses.  Currently they are all assumed to be reds.  When I do that the balance will likely all be thrown out of whack, until I fix it.


EDIT: I also on occasion use programs like For Each Tile and Dwarf Companion.  Both of these would probably fall under cheating with what I use them for.  Companion I use most often for buffing up adventurers to prep the world with some legends to see If I can get engraved in fortress mode.  Usually an in game equivalent of my avatar, a high level dracon swordmaster.  Companion I don't really use on serious fortresses, but I have on occasion healed minor spinal injuries from sparring soldiers or mass killed local wildlife like hippoes that are breeding out of control, killing FPS, and can't reasonably be killed otherwise due to accessibility.

For each tile mostly just sees use in surface fortresses.  I use it to mark the areas inside the walls as 'subterranean' so that the dwarves stay indoors setting works sensibly.  If I'm having a particularly bad time finding a fortress site I like I would also sometimes find a spot that has everything I want but magma or water, and then add it with for each tile after embark, but I haven't used that ever since I learned how to competently use the world painter.

[Noble Digger]

I think most of us agree on the following:

It's about your own enjoyment of the game,
Being careful that your tweaking doesn't reduce your enjoyment or positive challenges,
As long as you're honest with others about how you play the game if you're making relevant claims,

It's fine to do whatever! DF is a game, and a sandbox game, and many of you have played it for many, many hours... Mastered various aspects of gameplay, survived long harsh winters on a glacier with no water, seeing beloved dwarves die in bed of a hangnail, and you endured. In the end, the Fortress is a creative expression and how much you challenge yourself in expressing it is a [PERSONAL_MATTER]. I care much more how beautiful and interesting and detailed and imaginative your fortress is than I do how many long-rotted goblins are paved under its roads. Even a fortress drawn in DF Paint and never actually played would still serve as a creative expression, perhaps that of someone without the time and patience to manage a fort for 50+ years.

All Hail Flarechannel.