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[SethCreiyd]

If you are unfamiliar with the term "Brainstorm," please go here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainstorming

This is a place for you to post any/every idea you have about modding the game without worrying about it being a good idea or not.  It can be as simple or as complex an idea as you have.  The goal is to provide a safe area for ideas to proliferate without worrying about utility, feasibility, or sensibility.

The Rules

Ask and Answer:  Pose questions that may or may not have answers, and feel free to answer any others have posed.

Quantity, not Quality:  The more ideas we come up with, the more likely it is there will be unpredicted greatness.  Don't worry about coming up with good ideas - just come up with ideas.  They can be sorted through later.

Don't Be Arbitrarily Critical: This is tied with the first rule.    Commenting on a particularly interesting or crazed idea is fine, but try to avoid telling people their idea is flawed.  Instead, offer your own idea for improvement.

Run With It:  Pursue the ideas you like.  Combine and contrast them to breed monsters.  If you are struck by a strange mood, make a topic.  Go nuts.

I'll start this off.

- How does the game spawn mules and other sterile creatures?
- Making cats sterile by default prevents catsplosions but prevents kittens from being born (does it?) 
- Butcher-able fairies.
- Unique types of clothing, toys, and weapons for each civilization.  Goblin children might play with toy implements of torture.
- By giving a dragon 300,000 "Dragon Scale" body parts, would they become nigh invulnerable?
- Expanding the speech .txt files to give those confrontations more flavor.

Some grandiose mod proposals:

- Verbose Vocabulary:  Assemble a team of individuals who, using a dictionary, rework the language files to include every word in the English language.
- Mythic Bestiary:  Akin to the esteemed creature atlas, this mod will aim to create a bestiary of mythical [fanciful] creatures and races.  This will involve many, many creature raws.  Due to the voluminous nature of world mythologies, finding source material is the easy part.
- War and Weaponry:  Every pre-gunpowder weapon ever devised added to the game, constructable and usable.

Please continue!

[Caesar]

For the new version;

Fire imps injecting an extract with a very high temperature into their victims upon biting them.
Making giant-sized weapons to be used by giants.

[ray10k]

how about some way to directly open or close doors, floodgates etc. with mechanics, rather than having to build a pump to trigger a pressure plate?

[3]

How does the game spawn mules and other sterile creatures?

They're just spawned at world start like everything else as far as I know. Roaming creatures which spawn at the map edge during fortress mode may or may not just be generated on the spot, I'm not sure. Creatures which can't breed will nearly always survive worldgen as far as I've seen - you'll just get thousands of them, not hundreds thereof.

prevents kittens from being born (does it?)

Yes. Remind me to make a reaction that creates cats once creature reactions work properly.

Butcher-able fairies

Vermin don't have bodies, so butchering is impossible. Vermin won't be caught in cages, and getting them in webs kills them. Adding a body does nothing until the vermin tag is removed.

Unique types of clothing, toys, and weapons for each civilization.  Goblin children might play with toy implements of torture.

The reason this isn't done very much to a massive extent is that we don't have item glosses yet - making "sword" and "nearly identical but slightly different in a fluffy sense sword" is wasteful, and file sizes pile up fast. It's something I'm always considering, though.

By giving a dragon 300,000 "Dragon Scale" body parts, would they become nigh invulnerable?

Yep. The next version should be a little more interesting in this regard as the scales would actually be attached to precise, individual locations on the dragon's skin, so you'd probably be able to carve a small hole and stick a blade in there or something. Or the "scales" could just be a skin layer.

Expanding the speech .txt files to give those confrontations more flavor.

The Small Things still works, you know. Someone should start a petition to make its inclusion mandatory in all major mods (what's the point of making your own additions when someone's already done it?). Some of the larger mods add to the other speech files as well (creature-specific taunts especially), but I forget which specifically.

Making giant-sized weapons to be used by giants.

This would only work if you were to make a giant civ... one idea I've thought about is making a giant civ and giving it no start biomes. Would the "wild" giants (it is possible to get them to spawn even if they have a civ) spawn with equipment?

how about some way to directly open or close doors, floodgates etc. with mechanics, rather than having to build a pump to trigger a pressure plate?

That's outside the realms of modding at the moment, I'm afraid.

I did a ton of testing on this sort of thing a while back... internal body parts that are also limbs, guts which are also eyes, guts which are limbs, etc.... most of it worked out pretty well. I don't have anything to contribute at the moment, mind.

[Deon]

    Unique types of clothing, toys, and weapons for each civilization.  Goblin children might play with toy implements of torture.

The reason this isn't done very much to a massive extent is that we don't have item glosses yet - making "sword" and "nearly identical but slightly different in a fluffy sense sword" is wasteful, and file sizes pile up fast. It's something I'm always considering, though.

Well, my quite old already and well-known Genesis mod gives all races and sub-races (humans [theutons, nippon, norse, ahrabim, nubians, nords,outlaws], lizardmen, kobolds, goblins, elves, dwarves) unique equipment and they all have some shift to different weapons and armor) so it is "done very much to a massive extent", and the file size increase in Kilobytes (it's .txt files man) is not a big deal; and I think other mods do it too.

[3]

Not very much. I used to play a combined Dig Deeper + Civ Forge DF with elements of Legendary Lands, and there really wasn't that much embellishment (somewhat more than that present in the original game; DD has a lot of minor items but little of consequence). Or maybe I'm not remembering right.

The thing about large text files is that they're a pain to edit if they're not formatted correctly, and the game might (might) take longer to parse them if the difference is large enough.

[Deon]

It parses them only once if they're unchanged and only upon start, so it's not a big deal.

[3]

Yeah, I forgot about the objects folder and all that. Also, it's not like there's anything wrong with Ctrl-F, so my argument's pretty pointless.

Something I've attempted to do is make a creature with a large number of dummy attacks and one powerful one, as an attempt to make fighting one extremely dicey. I'm not worried about how it behaves when encountered - the strength of the attack doesn't seem to weight which one it picks or anything - but I am unsure about how effective the creature is during worldgen, as it tends to survive a lot (far longer than other creatures of its type).

[SethCreiyd]

Roaming creatures which spawn at the map edge during fortress mode may or may not just be generated on the spot, I'm not sure.

That's pretty much what I was going for, if they spawned randomly or if their populations were tracked in the game somehow.  Secondary to that question was whether or not donkeys and horses in-game can mate to produce mules (I am suspecting they cannot).

Vermin don't have bodies, so butchering is impossible. Vermin won't be caught in cages, and getting them in webs kills them. Adding a body does nothing until the vermin tag is removed.

That's still rather easy.  The ability to make fairy biscuits is well worth the effort.  Somewhat related, [NOT_BUTCHERABLE] seems to be present on all vermin.  So, this is redundant?

The reason this isn't done very much to a massive extent is that we don't have item glosses yet - making "sword" and "nearly identical but slightly different in a fluffy sense sword" is wasteful, and file sizes pile up fast.

I agree, but that's not exactly what I meant.  For instance, the difference between a cutlass and a katana are more fundamental than they are fluffy.  The game already gives the races some affinity with certain types of items by default.  The idea is to expand the list with new items, not just different-versions-of-the-same-old-stuff (although in the case of crafts this is admittedly a superficial difference).  Flavor!

I hope that one day The Toady One makes weapons function similarly to clothes and armor, sized to match their manufacturer, with the Small/Large descriptors used appropriately.

The Small Things still works, you know.

I did not even know of its existence.  Thank you for linking me to that wonderful mod.  Is there any talk of it being included in an official update?

Making giant-sized weapons to be used by giants.

This would only work if you were to make a giant civ...

Here is a race of Giants, naked, weaponless, but playable (and brutally overpowered... my tests with them are far from complete, so use discretion):

entity_default.txt

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[ENTITY:BIGBLUE]
[CREATURE:GIANT]
[TRANSLATION:HUMAN]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:SUBORDINATE]
[RIVER_PRODUCTS]
[OCEAN_PRODUCTS]
[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PACK]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PULL]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT]
[COMMON_DOMESTIC_PET]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:OWN_RACE:512]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:7:0:1]
[UNDEAD_CANDIDATE]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:CAVE]
[LIKES_SITE:CITY]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CITY]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE]
[TOLERATES_SITE:RUIN]
[TOLERATES_SITE:CAVE_DETAILED]
[CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_SITE_LEADER]
[ABUSE_BODIES]
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:TUNDRA:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
[BABYSNATCHER]
[SIEGER]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:10]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:10]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:1200]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[RELIGION:PANTHEON]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:RULERSHIP]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:FATE]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:FIRE]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:HUNTING]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:DEATH]
[RELIGION_SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[WANDERER]
[BEAST_HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:METALCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOOD_BURNER]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[WILL_ACCEPT_TRIBUTE]

and the modded creature_standard.txt entry,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:GIANT]
[NAME:giant:giants:giantish]
[TILE:'G'][COLOR:3:0:0]
[GENPOWER:5]
[FANCIFUL]
[SLOW_LEARNER][CAN_SPEAK][CAN_CIV]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:height]
[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[SIZE:10]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:1:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[MAXAGE:40:60]
[CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
[FAT:8]
[EQUIPS]
[DIURNAL]
[BIOME:ANY_LAND]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:10]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[SPHERE:FOOD]
[SPHERE:STRENGTH]
[CURIOUSBEAST_EATER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_GUZZLER]
[CURIOUSBEAST_ITEM]

I did a ton of testing on this sort of thing a while back... internal body parts that are also limbs, guts which are also eyes, guts which are limbs, etc.... most of it worked out pretty well. I don't have anything to contribute at the moment, mind.

The way the next version is shaping up, the possibilities are only going to grow.  Jello moai statues here we come!

[3]

Somewhat related, [NOT_BUTCHERABLE] seems to be present on all vermin.  So, this is redundant?

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure. There's also SMALL_REMAINS - one would think the function of that tag would be included in the vermin tags, considering that they're too small to leave proper corpses. Alternatively, consider that corpses might operate entirely independently to body parts. This is only going to get even more confused next version, because then vermin will have bodies (assuming I'm remembering this correctly), and might then be butcherable. Might.

For instance, the difference between a cutlass and a katana are more fundamental than they are fluffy.

Yeah, you're right. Regardless of whether or not the difference matters now, this will be extremely important next version, as the effectiveness of weapons will be determined by edge/area/density instead of set values. This also opens up an entirely new side to the "martial arts mod" - what about entire sword disciplines, now that we have seperate attacks per weapon type?

I hope that one day The Toady One makes weapons function similarly to clothes and armor, sized to match their manufacturer, with the Small/Large descriptors used appropriately.

It'll be necessary at some point. Supposedly, if you take a playable civ with differently-sized castes in the next version, they'll make generic-sized equipment which will fit both sizes (which is naturally less than ideal). Once that's fixed and we have people making appropriately-sized armours, it'll be possible to move on to weapons.

I did not even know of its existence.  Thank you for linking me to that wonderful mod.  Is there any talk of it being included in an official update?

It'd be very good if it was. It's really just a bloat at the moment, so I suppose it'll have to wait for a while.

[TerminatorII]

I once made a size 8 Rakshasha Raj race. 4 arms and two legged Cats that made armor and weapons. They were way to over powered. (think set training to axes and given them 2 axes they leveled up wrestling in 1 month and became super wrestler champs not axe lords.)


I think wrestleing xp really needs an overhaul. way to quick leveling that.

[Shade-o]

Mechanisms made of metal other than Adamantine. Iron, Steel and a few others are sensible for crafting it. In case you were wondering, it requires adding [ANY_USE] to the metal, and a dwarf with Mechanic labour can craft it at a Metalsmith's Forge.

[carriontrooper]

- Unique types of clothing, toys, and weapons for each civilization.  Goblin children might play with toy implements of torture.
- Expanding the speech .txt files to give those confrontations more flavor.
- Mythic Bestiary:  Akin to the esteemed creature atlas, this mod will aim to create a bestiary of mythical [fanciful] creatures and races.  This will involve many, many creature raws.  Due to the voluminous nature of world mythologies, finding source material is the easy part.
- War and Weaponry:  Every pre-gunpowder weapon ever devised added to the game, constructable and usable.

I plan to implement these features in my Mega Mix. So far the speech files are quite varied, toys aplenty, and the other two goals are slowly accumulating.

Here's some more idea:
-Next version we'll have custom workshops, right? How about a gunsmith which can produce bullets and guns?
-We always need more non-Western kind of weapons. We need more weapons from non-Egyptian Africa, South East Asia, and India.
-Speaking of globalization, do it with mythical creatures too. I have yet to see Sirrushes, Mokele-Mbembes and Tikbalangs...

[SethCreiyd]

-Speaking of globalization, do it with mythical creatures too. I have yet to see Sirrushes, Mokele-Mbembes and Tikbalangs...

Urist Candlejack cancels Drink:  Has become a wendigo.
Urist Candlejack has gone berserk!

[Safe-Keeper]

Replace the starting wagon with a boat, changing "wheels" and whatnot into "mast", etc. just for immersion's sake. Would allow me to start a fort saying "OK, so we've beached our boat and are ready to start our colony..."

Only problem is I suspect this will cause caravans to arrive on magical boats running across land, too .