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[Vector]

The fact you're telling us this ensures that it will succeed.

I sincerely doubt it.  If someone wants to try, I suppose they're welcome... but really, there's no point.

[ExKirby]

What about EK?

Crap, I forgot.  Sorry, then... I'll have to retract my request   


In that case, we've got Pandarsenic and ExKirby for the ICs, with the hope that both will take a relatively hands-off approach.  That all right with both of you, dudes?

Yeah, sure. My IC style was just to give the town a nudge in the right direction, and let them work it out. I'm considering not joining anymore games and just host/IC.

[Vector]

Meh, you should play.  Playing games is good experience, and once you get more used to it you'll probably have far more fun.

[dakarian]

In truth, playing games helps you as a host so you can better see what a town/scum need to do well. 

So for now I recommend doing both.

[ExKirby]

Maybe, but we all know I suck at playing. I know what to do, but putting it into practice is hard.

[Dependent]

Is this a good place to get my feet wet in the pool of mafia? I hope so.

In. Take it easy on me, will you?

[Vector]

Maybe, but we all know I suck at playing. I know what to do, but putting it into practice is hard.

Yeah, but honestly I feel like you're just on the cusp of doing well.  I remember lurking because I just didn't know what to do, and waiting until I could jump on something someone's pressure had kicked up.  Most of the time, my points were completely invalid.

Just don't give up.  We've all been there, and it royally sucks.  What matters more than your skill is your attitude towards your skill--and that's shown marked improvement.  Now you just need a little bit of self-confidence

Is this a good place to get my feet wet in the pool of mafia? I hope so.

In. Take it easy on me, will you?

Hah, I was just about to ask you to join this game!  Yes, this is the right place.  We tend to play somewhat aggressive games here, but I'm sure you'll get used to it eventually.



Just three more, dudes, and we'll be able to begin! 

[dakarian]

@ExKirby

In truth, I've seen you do much better lately.  As I said earlier, the last thing you probably NEED is boldness.  You can feel unsure and wishy washy IRL, but NEVER write it in your text.  That's the #1 benefit to a text game: you can edit out the weakness in your posts. 

When you're reading and thinking things out, you can ponder and second guess yourself (yes, even some WIFOM) all you want.  Once you go to post, though, silence all of that and go for the throat!

Last thing: stop caring about your own scumtells.  Stop worrying about how YOU look to others.  The TRUE secret to being a townie is the most funniest of secrets: Townies fling scumtells and don't care that they throw it.  They don't care how scummy they look or even if a mountain of votes fall on them. 

If you think someone is scummy but they have 3 votes on them and everyone's already said everything you wanted to say then say it anyway and vote.  Yes.. you bandwagoned.  Yes, you said what someone else has said. 

If your finding that people are flinging scumtells left and right and it makes you want to vote for this person, then another, then another.. and it makes you change your vote every other post.. do it.  Yes, you flip flopped.  Yes you're being wishy washy.

A GOOD town will see your scumtells, attack you for it, then find out WHY you did it: you are after scum and it just how it worked out.  Then a GOOD town will leave you alone.

Bad townies and scum will try to lynch you ONLY on the tells themselves.  "Yes, you have a good reason, but you still bandwagoned/flipflopped."  If they are a bad townie, they'll just look like a tunnelvisioner and be ignored.  If they are scum, they'll realize they made a mistake and panic, thus proving themselves scum. 

If you get lynched for it.. then..well.. so be it.  Townies die every day.




This is part of the mentality I go by when I play.  I'd advocate it for anyone.

[ExKirby]

Remind me to quote that when this thing starts.

[dakarian]

There's quite a few things people keep asking me to requote when a new game starts.

[ExKirby]

I know, that's why I'm quoting it. Save you a job.

[Eduren]

I think that may be something that a newbie has trouble understanding. Town are cavalier, scum are cautious. Many people when they first start out have those two switched, I know that I did. It may be because early on, players are scared by the NK and so project their caution onto the rest of the town. Similarly, a newbie scum may be feeling powerful about their role. So at some point there is a transition that players must go through to get attitudes right.

Of course there is a fine line between cavalier and carelessness. A townie does care about what happens during the day, but is much less concerned about what happens to him.

And lastly, none of this is considering WIFOM, so take it with a grain of salt.

[dakarian]

It's not as WIFOM as you think.  the true WIFOM is thinking "The scum know this so they will act different"

It doesn't QUITE work that easily. 

The key is the Townie and their true goal: finding scum.  A passive townie helps to kill the town.  The goes beyond the "they look like scum so they get lynched" mess.  Ignoring everything else, a passive townie is too busy saving their own hide or worrying over mistakes to scumhunt.  Whatever the cause, when an entire town acts that way, the town never wins. This happens regardless on how the scum act.


Thus townies learn..slowly.. that they have to be bold and aggressive to win.  Thus they start becoming bold (well some.. the ones that can NEVER be bold end up being shunned until they stop playing, sadly).  Even if they don't catch scum, the mere fact that they aren't torn apart by the town (once the town realizes that aggressiveness is NEVER a scumtell) is enough to keep them going.  Eventually, they naturally improve and catch scum.

This leaves the scum at an odd situation.  They may start off cautious or bold, but only until they start facing a true scumhunt.  I tell you this, just about EVERY SCUM has, the first time they've seen someone say "you look like scum" panicked.  Jeesh, when I was in Para 12 Janus made a quicky comment about my first RV-in truth his comment WAS mostly a RV- I panicked.  No.. I PANICKED!  I lurked the entire night, then only posted after he voted on someone else, THEN I made him my primary target to NK that very night!

Bold/Uncaring/or Cautious, once the attacks come on you, you feel it.. the urge to hide, to do whatever it takes to get them to stop.. just stop voting, stop attacking.. leave you alone.  You realize the big fact about scum: you don't really care about the day game. 

Mafia doesn't care.  They don't NEED to hit you hard in the day to kill you and doing so leads to bad risks.  Night, though, you can do whatever you want and not worry about anything. 

So you grow cautious.. too cautious, until you realize that THAT is a scumtell.  Thus you try to act like the town.


Thus we get to my last post.  The townie, after a while, learn that they want to be bold and slowly becomes less worried about scumtells since they MUST be bold to catch scum.  The best townies learn that their actions WILL cause others to attack them and that's fine.. because they can use the attacks to read the other players and better find scum.  The scum, meanwhile, learns to fear the scumtell and not to care about the day game, so they do whatever it takes to avoid being noticed.  They don't have any real use to being attacked.. so they don't want to be.

Yes, you have newtells which look like scumtells, and gambits that can backfire, and elite scum that can be bandwagoned on and not care..but that's NOT that rare, and even when it's done, there will STILL be clues to the truth.  A townie can be anti-town for only so long before they break the town itself.  A scum can be aggressive only so long as they don't die from it.  Eventually, they'll break and show who they really are.

In a way, the TRUE WIFOM, then, is anything that makes you forget those facts.

[Vector]

Bold/Uncaring/or Cautious, once the attacks come on you, you feel it.. the urge to hide, to do whatever it takes to get them to stop.. just stop voting, stop attacking.. leave you alone.  You realize the big fact about scum: you don't really care about the day game. 

Mafia doesn't care.  They don't NEED to hit you hard in the day to kill you and doing so leads to bad risks.  Night, though, you can do whatever you want and not worry about anything. 

So you grow cautious.. too cautious, until you realize that THAT is a scumtell.  Thus you try to act like the town.

To be honest, I often have the reverse feeling.  The daygame is absolutely critical.  Sometimes you sideline and move along with the group.  Sometimes you wait out a day to get a better position and then come roaring out with a carefully constructed attack.  Often, you build bandwagon-behavior that doesn't look at all like bandwagoning, or attempt to convince others to bandwagon without voting on your own.  You construct groups of buddies, help fights perpetuate, and so on.  Your entire daygame is a careful maneuver to make sure that you stay alive on subsequent days and that your NK will hit the right person.

I worry deeply about the night game.  Night is when inspections, protections, and viggings typically happen.  Those can only be eliminated by an extremely careful day game.  You need to hit hard in the day when it matters, as well as being soft.  You need to know how to spread WIFOM in such a way that it doesn't look like WIFOM, but like careful consideration.

What I'm trying to say, ultimately, is that scum need a daygame just as good as the town.  If you can post a lot as scum without being caught, you have not just the benefits of the scum, but also the benefits of the town.  You're practically unstoppable.

[dakarian]

*cough*  I noted that there are a few exceptions, for example, scum that break past the mold into their own style that is incredibly hard to catch under normal situations.

Vector is the textbook example of one such a scum.  Consider my words about scum Intermediate play while his words being Advanced...very very advanced.