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[dakarian]

I looked back at the moment of your claim, you had exactly TWO accusations made against you:

1. A VERY vague comment you made about information you were planning to do but didn't want to say

2. Lurking

#2 was explained by the fact that your PC went BLAH which was more than enough to push away that argument (besides, to maintain my 'town look' which I was still working on, I'd have to keep an anti-lurker-hunt stance and stop any bandwagon on you based on lurking)

#1 only existed because you were considering claiming you were Operative. 

So with that, and the town focused on the web/dakarian debate, you were clean for getting through day 2.  We scum, meanwhile, never considered you for a night kill.

Considering that most of day 3 was based around the mediums vs me and Toonyman vs Leafsnail and Frelock, no one would've noticed you (note that Redwarrior was also ignored.. meh Neruz was mostly ignored except by forsaken!).

So with that, you would've had a nice easy path to Lylo as an Operative.  If you decided not to kill, no one would know anything was wrong. 

As for the both, I'm 90% sure that I would've had the bot shoot Leafsnail...

And that would've been disastrous!  The game would've continued since you still existed.  The town would panic over the operative existing (it would be CLEAR by then) but then would be glad since it would give them a chance.  Toony would be lynched and we would be desperate in trying to kill the operative before it was too late.

Would you have gotten to the end after that?  Perhaps.. maybe.  The town would be focused on the scum, NOT you.  The scum would be after the operative but that would depend on how well you pretended to NOT be the operative.  That would be purely based on how well you could lie about being something else.  I could you could do that well enough, we wouldn't have a means to find you and the town would eat us ALIVE. 

Would you have won?  Maybe..maybe not.  However, you would've tried and that would've been enough. 

But no.  You claimed.  Because of that you outted yourself.  Because you outted yourself, we knew who to hit.  Because you outted yourself, the town would NEVER leave you alive long enough, since they know you have that 1-shot kill to use.  Your chance to win ENDED the moment you claimed.  Before you go "well it's my loss" you also RUINED Pandarsenic's chances as well.  Your hasty claim meant HIS loss.

Even if you sucked and would've been lynched Day 2, it doesn't matter.  You try.. you push.. you aim to win even when all is lost.  That's HOW you play.. that's how you learn to be a good player.  Your play this day wasn't just bad..it warped the game. 

I never EVER want to see anything like it again. 

[forsaken1111]

I never EVER want to see anything like it again. 

And if you EVER do it again we will send flying ninja robot monkeys to kill you in your sleep. 

[Neruz]

Seriously, the town performance this game was a joke. Us scum were sitting in the scumchat going "Holy crap, they're winning it for us, we don't have to do anything." This game was handed to us on a platter.

[forsaken1111]

I know, and you were so painfully obvious with your whole argument. Half of the town weren't even paying attention.

[RedWarrior0]

More than half the town forgot that I exist.

[Neruz]

They weren't paying attention because of that argument.

[forsaken1111]

They weren't paying attention because of that argument.

No, I mean they weren't paying attention to the game at all.

[ExKirby]

...Dak. I don't really care what you think. You are being as understanding as a beetroot. If I want to claim, I'll claim. If I want to help the larger majority win, I will. So shut the hell up with the bullshit, and let me play how I want to.

[forsaken1111]

Thank you Kirby, I couldn't agree more. Everyone here seems to want to tell people how to play, noone can accept a different play style. It's a game for god's sake, not a job. If I want to play to lose I will play to lose. The point of the thing is to have fun.

[ExKirby]

And I would have had fun playing a pro-town game.

[ToonyMan]

...Dak. I don't really care what you think. You are being as understanding as a beetroot. If I want to claim, I'll claim. If I want to help the larger majority win, I will. So shut the hell up with the bullshit, and let me play how I want to.

And I would have had fun playing a pro-town game.

...

Town, lost, because of you.

[Alexhans]

Also, has anyone else noticed that scum have been winning a lot more recently?  Not just this game, but many other games too.  I mean, if we look at the most recently ended...

Para 12 - Mafia wins (perfect win)
LCS Mafia - Mafia faction wins
MSPA Mafia - Mafia wins (fine, perhaps this doesn't count)
NSBM2 - Mafia wins (perfect win)
IMBMM - Town wins
DOGTM2 - Game declared over, but scum were heading for an easy win.  Incidentally, having now watched Death Note, I've realised a strategy we could've used.  Ah well.
CM - Town wins (but mainly due to scum inexperience)
BM5 - Mafia wins (perfect win)
KWN: De - Town wins
BM4 - Mafia wins (perfect win)
TMV - Town wins (partly due to inactive scum member being modkilled)
Para 11 - Mafia wins (perfect win)

Maybe you need to start scumhunting instead of being distracted by any stupid mechanic that mods throw into your laps?

Bay12 relies on PRs to win...
Bay12 doesn't have a game plan...
Bay12 doesn't know what WIFOM is and when WIFOM is harmful.
Bay12 depends on a few players who post and a lot of players who play randomly or just dont play at all...

Maybe that's the problem.

We wouldnt win a mountanious even if our lives depended on it.

Also, the vanilla townie did almost nothing and eventually dropped the game, despite the fact that his votes and day-game participation would have been very helpful for the town. Even in Paranormal the VTs are important! We really need to get people to understand that better.

The fact that you need to clarify this sucks big time.  Every player in the game should try to win regardless of the role.  Mafia is a game of informed minority vs uninformed majority... PRs were added later for fun... We can not have people that won't involve themselves unless they have super awesome roles that win games on their own...

I'm a townie in Paranormal all the time, you just gotta do yer best.

I'm proud of you... XD

Web's rant post

dude... I still need to get over your loss of b12 mafia when you were confirmed townie and didn't do anything... while dak was right on his Josh lynch (although Josh had played an interesting gambyt)

And I told you it was Mylo. It took me forever to tell you. It's like I'm talking to a bunch of mentally handicapped morons. I have to explain the SIMPLEST ideas to you all. You all deserved to lose. You all deserved worse. I wish I could stab you all in your sleep.

Yeah... I somewhat agree here... People in b12 simply refuse to do what's best for them... They ignore all the basic strategies of mafia... But those can only be taught to newbs/and-not-so-newb by people who know the deal from mafiascum or other places...

Remember when we started here?  I had a hell of a time trying to convince people that they should random vote to get day 1 going... And after they learned that... they just random voted and didn't do anything else... it's hard... But eventually we'll educate enough people to have ONE decent game.

WIFOM is the most powerful weapon the mafia has.

The most powerful weapon mafia has are anti-town towns.  If everyone in a game is pro-town then you can dedicate yourself to scumhunt.

If people are anti-town you'll spend the whole game dwelling in WIFOM trying to guess if he someone is scum or just an idiot.

Seriously, the town performance this game was a joke. Us scum were sitting in the scumchat going "Holy crap, they're winning it for us, we don't have to do anything." This game was handed to us on a platter.

This is happening every game i watch... Every game I play... And when you call people on it... They think you're scum because you're scolding them... G_G

...Dak. I don't really care what you think. You are being as understanding as a beetroot. If I want to claim, I'll claim. If I want to help the larger majority win, I will. So shut the hell up with the bullshit, and let me play how I want to.

This idiotic... If you're not playing to win just don't play... He is just telling you that you should always try to win... No matter how bad your position is...

Thank you Kirby, I couldn't agree more. Everyone here seems to want to tell people how to play, noone can accept a different play style. It's a game for god's sake, not a job. If I want to play to lose I will play to lose. The point of the thing is to have fun.

Bullshit.  If you play to lose you're spoiling everybody else's fun... This is a team game... don't fuck up your team's chances on purpose... If you enjoy doing that... play somewhere else where people enjoy being fucked up by their own team mates...

[forsaken1111]

Bullshit.  If you play to lose you're spoiling everybody else's fun... This is a team game... don't fuck up your team's chances on purpose... If you enjoy doing that... play somewhere else where people enjoy being fucked up by their own team mates...

Oh go stuff it. It's a casual game, don't try to make it out to be some hardcore sport. If you don't like the way we play, go play with other people who are equally pigheaded and caught up in their own ego. Web comes to mind.

[ExKirby]

Thank you forsaken. At least there are SOME people who get the idea.

[forsaken1111]

Personally I have just as much fun winning as losing, every game lets me try something fun and new.

Also blasting the exterminator was great.