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[LegoLord]

I'm beginning to feel the most important point made so far is that if Toady spent time doing all the quick fixes before adding in the next main feature, he'd be spending a lot of time reworking fixes that were meant for an earlier system - it'd ultimately be a big time sink.  This is probably why Toady doesn't focus on the quick fixes.

Brenoink, some of these people might take what you said better if you answered their questions. I'm trying to answer yours, as are others.  You can return the courtesy, instead of focusing on those of us who are less courteous.

[Jay]

If milking is just an example, why is it his only example?

[brenoink]

I'm answering them as best I can, people just aren't liking my responses because it doesn't agree with what they've decided I am, or what I'm trying to argue.

If I miss any, you'll have to forgive me, its hard to keep track of everyone trying to get a piece of me.

[brenoink]

If milking is just an example, why is it his only example?

Because if I bring anything else up, you'll just have the same responses?

[FluffyToast J]

"Why do you care milking isnt in yet?" For the third time. -.-

[Jay]

If milking is just an example, why is it his only example?

Because if I bring anything else up, you'll just have the same responses?

If you had anything else to bring up, why didn't you bring it up before anybody had any responses at all?

[forsaken1111]

Completely ignoring the fact that this argument is out of hand and frankly, fairly stupid, just why do you care that milking isnt in yet?

Again... its an example of the issue.

As for it being a placeholder... what is it going to be replaced with? Are we going to have to DDR an udder or something? I don't see how you can get more depth with milking.

Well this is dwarf fortress, one of the most complicated games I've ever played. Maybe he wants the quality of the milk to depend on the animal's care, but he can't do that until he gets animals to eat, but he can't do that without a week or so of testing to determine what a good rate of consumption is to avoid starving out an early fortress? Maybe he wants some new crops that are grown as fodder for the animals, or maybe he wants to let them graze on grass growing outside (Grass, as far as I know, has no actual physical impact on the game currently... its just 'window dressing') so that may take a while. This is the point.. YOU DON'T KNOW what is planned. You are making assumptions.

[SirPenguin]

And he still hasnt answered my question, "Why do you care milking isnt in?"

What don't you understand? And I mean the general "you" here, everyone who keeps thinking "WELL MILKING IS INCONSEQUENTIAL WHAT A SILLY THING TO ARGUE ABOUT!" is a valid post in this topic.

There are two conclusions to why milking isn't in.

1. It's easy to do, yet Toady does not do it, showing that he'd rather add more minute details which might not affect anything instead of fleshing out his current systems which would be easy to program and beneficial to all.

2. It isn't easy to do, showing that Toady is a very bad or inexperienced programmer, and thus casting the whole project in a very worrying light.

It's not the specific fact that you cannot milk cows that he is arguing. It's the conclusions (ones that can be drawn for many, many features), both of which are pretty worrying in their own right.

[brenoink]

"Why do you care milking isnt in yet?" For the third time. -.-

Oh fine, you've caught me. I just love making cheese, and of course, my favorite kind comes from cows. I just can't LIVE without it.

But seriously, I've answered this at least 5 times now.

[Capntastic]

And he still hasnt answered my question, "Why do you care milking isnt in?"

Ah yes, an example he gave is (percieved as) trivial; ergo his entire argument unravels and blows away in the wind.

[Jay]

And he still hasnt answered my question, "Why do you care milking isnt in?"

Ah yes, an example he gave is (percieved as) trivial; ergo his entire argument unravels and blows away in the wind.

An example?
It's not just "an example" if it's the cornerstone of his entire argument and no other examples have been brought up whatsoever.

[FluffyToast J]

Penguin:
Its his only example. I think that makes it something valid to post about.

Captain:
What Jaybud said, but instead of "an example" replace with "THE example".

[LegoLord]

And he still hasnt answered my question, "Why do you care milking isnt in?"

What don't you understand? And I mean the general "you" here, everyone who keeps thinking "WELL MILKING IS INCONSEQUENTIAL WHAT A SILLY THING TO ARGUE ABOUT!" is a valid post in this topic.

There are two conclusions to why milking isn't in.

1. It's easy to do, yet Toady does not do it, showing that he'd rather add more minute details which might not affect anything instead of fleshing out his current systems which would be easy to program and beneficial to all.

2. It isn't easy to do, showing that Toady is a very bad or inexperienced programmer, and thus casting the whole project in a very worrying light.

3) It's easy to do, but future additions will render it obsolete so that he'll just have to do it again, thereby making such a strategy a waste of time (other programmers actually agree with this)
4) It isn't easy to do simply because most other games that have milking don't have quite as much depth.

And I'm sure there are others.  Another thing that would help your side would be more compromise, and fewer ultimatums.

[danielout]

Oh fine, you've caught me. I just love making cheese, and of course, my favorite kind comes from cows. I just can't LIVE without it.

Goat or sheep cheese is way better; let's argue about cheese now instead.
Honestly, I don't see anyone on either side of this changing their mind; a cheese discussion is bound to be equally as productive at worst.

[FluffyToast J]

I like parmesan cheese.