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[mainiac]

Adamantium buckets or will bauxite buckets do?

[Il Palazzo]

Damn good question. What was the melting point of bauxite again?
I've just thought that it might be difficult securing water supply. Wikipedia doesn't state at what depth beneath Sun's surface one can find aquifiers. 'Cause if it's too deep, it might be easier to import some. I suppose one could reuse the buckets for helium harvesting later on. This would work nicely, you get a bucket of water, you send out a bucket of helium. Simple and efficient.
And don't start me on mining out oxygen and hydrogen, then making water in situ. Reaching oxygen-rich layers would be well beyond the scope of first colonies' ability.

[Twiggie]

mining o2 from the sun? lol

also, DYSON SPHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!eleven

idc if its unrealistic

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

Ringworld?

[Nadaka]

Need I point out that nuclear power is somewhat resource-intensive?

It does require an input of materials, which are outputted as waste. This means that those materials must be imported to the moon. They'll be easier to get rid of, of course, than they are here.

For clarification, just research nuclear power plants. Fuel rods, etc.

A small self contained nuclear reactor can run for somewhere between 3 years and a decade without being refueled. And the actual weight of that fuel is insignificant, less than a person.

[The Architect]

Need I point out that nuclear power is somewhat resource-intensive?

It does require an input of materials, which are outputted as waste. This means that those materials must be imported to the moon. They'll be easier to get rid of, of course, than they are here.

For clarification, just research nuclear power plants. Fuel rods, etc.

A small self contained nuclear reactor can run for somewhere between 3 years and a decade without being refueled. And the actual weight of that fuel is insignificant, less than a person.

Ok, instead of saying "that's extremely ignorant", I'll just point out that fuel is not the only input to a nuclear plant, and that I wasn't referring to fuel.

[Nadaka]

Need I point out that nuclear power is somewhat resource-intensive?

It does require an input of materials, which are outputted as waste. This means that those materials must be imported to the moon. They'll be easier to get rid of, of course, than they are here.

For clarification, just research nuclear power plants. Fuel rods, etc.

A small self contained nuclear reactor can run for somewhere between 3 years and a decade without being refueled. And the actual weight of that fuel is insignificant, less than a person.

Ok, instead of saying "that's extremely ignorant", I'll just point out that fuel is not the only input to a nuclear plant, and that I wasn't referring to fuel.

I am not going to say "that's extremely ignorant". What input was required for the Pioneer or Voyager spacecraft?

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/09/portable-backyard-nuclear-reactors-ready-by-2013.php.
On a larger scale than those spacecraft, take something like that, attach a boiler, turbine and condenser with a closed cycle and what material input are you talking about?

[The Architect]

I'm talking about a real nuclear power plant, not a miniature. The kind that requires large amounts of power rods, etc. Something that produces enough power to do what we've discussed here.

[mainiac]

Also let's keep perspective on the fact that even reliable rockets fail catastrophically %2 of the time or so.  That's not too scary if we are talking about a small nuclear powerplant for a deep space probe.  But if a rocket carrying a full blown reactor supply of fissable materials were to blow up mid launch, you're basically looking at a dirty bomb attack.

[Nadaka]

I'm talking about a real nuclear power plant, not a miniature. The kind that requires large amounts of power rods, etc. Something that produces enough power to do what we've discussed here.

You don't need a 1.5 gigawatt plant to start up a colony. The raw materials involved would be as much or more than what would be required to build the colony itself. You can fit what you need in something the size of a shipping container. Toshiba is building 200 kilowatt power plants at about 20ft x 6ft.

[The Architect]

The point being made was, I believe, that a sizeable nuclear power plant isn't self-sufficient by any means. It requires constant input, which isn't a problem here on earth. That is offset slightly by the output (radioactive materials) being much easier to safely dispose of.

Certainly you could attempt it with a small-output plant if you want it to take 50 years. But that just means you go through supplies more slowly, not less of them. Someone was suggesting that physical (force-dependent) refining would be necessary, since we can't reasonably expect to get catalysts there. That requires a lot of power. Not a glorified nuclear battery.

It's by no means impossible, I just wished to point out that it isn't a simple matter at all, no matter how you calculate it. Some people were acting like a nuclear power plant is some kind of magical self-sufficient free energy. It's just not. Certainly the best option for a main power source, in my opinion.

[zchris13]

I'm thinking nanobots that turn the regolith into solar panels.

[Nadaka]

I'm thinking nanobots that turn the regolith into solar panels.

That would be nice. Really nice. Its not quite possible yet, though give it another 30 years and maybe.

Though we could probably use more conventional robots to assemble and place solar reflectors for a solar power concentrator up there if we can manage to produce panels of glass or metal. That requires some kind of fully automated smelter combined with a something like a rapid prototype machine. Like I mentioned before, its a very challenging design task, but nothing about it is beyond our current technology.

This link may be of interest to people looking at the science of lunar colonization.
http://www.permanent.com/i-index.htm

[zchris13]

What is lunar regolith made of? Be back in a sec.

[The Architect]

I guess the topic got bogged down in lunar colonization because that's really all we can consider right now. The thing is that no one would ever want to leave this paradise perfectly designed to protect our bodies. Granted life on Earth can and does become miserable for certain people in some places at some times, but as far as the natural environment goes it's golden. Just moving to another atmosphere would be catastrophic, even with shielding and an air supply.

How about mars? A mars space station, anyone up on the science to do that (and do it right)?