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[Starver]

The radiation would be an extra incentive to bring it back into circulation, instead of piling it up under your pillow).

I don't know, I could do with some radiation-induced superpowers, and what better time to get them than when fast asleep and dreaming about flying anyway.

[Lord Shonus]

Having Paper money actually not be tied to real money comes a bit later.

And even that is contested by the Europeans... Not that I support baseless monies, since they made economies a bit unstable.

The reason you don't want to have backed currency is because it limits the size of the economy to the size of your (gold) reserves.  Specifically, if you've got 5 gold bars in storage as your store of value, you only have 750 dwarfbucks in circulation.  Sure, one dwarfbuck can buy a scone and then the baker buys a club and the weaponsmith buys a flute, but people need to be able to store their value (maybe the weaponsmith is saving for retirement) and then that dwarfbuck gets taken out of circulation.

So you start buying up all the gold you can, and sticking it in a vault, and your supply of money grows, so your economy can grow too.  Eventually, you run out of gold to use to back your economy, so you invade other continents and take their gold and silver.

Eventually, your economy reaches a point where it isn't feasible to have a store of wealth that large, so you start to float your currency.  (Not that I think it's a GOOD thing to have a floating currency in the hands of the government, but it's a trade-off)

Actually, the opposite is true. The reason that modern currencies were taken off the gold standard is because a single-standard currency is too reliant on the value of something where the value is highly dependant on the supply in the market. Having money tiedto gold meant that every fluctuation in the value of gold (which varied in direct proportion to how much gold was available) toook a toll on the entire economy. The 40 bars in your safe are worth a lot less if someone mines 60 bars in a few weeks. This effect is only a real concern in a global economy, as within an area, mineral supplies are fairly stable, unless massive importing from elsewhere disrupts the paradigm (as happened in 16th century Spain. All the gold looted from the New World wrecked the Spanish economy.)

[Mechanoid]

An object is valuable only because a person/group/society views it as valuable.
What i would like to see is a system where either the player or the society basically sets what the economy uses and how it functions, but is generally centered around the creatures performing necessary functions (eating, drinking, ownership) and using the economy to "pay" for those functions.

When the economy is activated, the dwarves in charge of the economy get together and form the economic rules based on the current fortress setup, personal preferences, beliefs, trade agreements, etc. Eventually depending on the fortress setup, they'll come to a conclusion about which items are worth what to who and when. If your fortress is heavilly geared towards metal work and there's enough of a metal that all the dwarves "agree" on what they like, that metal will be the economy material; but if the fortress is heavilly geared towards bone crafts, then creatures' bones and their totems might be the economy material/item.
Or the player could set it so that something completely arbitrary like [masterpeice dimple-cup dyed masterpeice giant cave spider silk cloth] is the (or more simply, just dyed with dimple cup dye, or studded with adamantine) is basis of the economy, and then just unpause it and watch it go from there.

Obviously workshops have to be enhanced to perform very specific actions to make sure the right symbol gets engraved on the correct item, but that would probably happen eventually anyways.

[edit - likewise, the player would get seiged by goblins because the goblins heard from someone that there's alot of material that the goblin leader likes that's inside of the fortress; of course, that doesn't stop those lone goblin/groups who like the other things from attacking -- the fortress value would be entirely dependent on what your dwarves and everyone else thinks of it. if they think nothing of it, your worth will litterally be zero, because that would be the fact of the situation.]

[Saber Cherry]

I don't at all like the idea of a paper currency in a pre-printing-press, seemingly pre-literate civilization.

Coins, however, I like.  Platinum and electrum should certainly be allowed as currency, as well as other precious metal alloys.  Possibly bronze and brass.  But iron, lead, aluminum, and other baser metals, no - ornamental only.  A good currency should be (and traditionally, they have been) dense, fairly nonreactive, non-toxic, highly lustrous, malleable, not common, and have a fairly low melting point.  Metals that are not suitable for jewelry are not suitable for a primitive currency.

Radioactive currency is rather interesting, though it would be difficult to measure the purity (thus value) without modern tools.  Still, I like the idea of greedy nobles stockpiling so many radioactive coins around their tomb that it eventually melts down and seals the surprised noble in a fresh block of glowing green glass.

[Granite26]

Actually, the opposite is true. The reason that modern currencies were taken off the gold standard is because a single-standard currency is too reliant on the value of something where the value is highly dependant on the supply in the market. Having money tiedto gold meant that every fluctuation in the value of gold (which varied in direct proportion to how much gold was available) toook a toll on the entire economy. The 40 bars in your safe are worth a lot less if someone mines 60 bars in a few weeks. This effect is only a real concern in a global economy, as within an area, mineral supplies are fairly stable, unless massive importing from elsewhere disrupts the paradigm (as happened in 16th century Spain. All the gold looted from the New World wrecked the Spanish economy.)

I don't think that mining extra bars in a fort is going to drastically change the value of gold, but I accept your point that the new world affected the Spanish economy... 

I'd still say currency left the gold/silver standard due to the government printing too much money and being unable to afford to back it anymore, though...

Neat US currency link

[Euld]

I don't at all like the idea of a paper currency in a pre-printing-press, seemingly pre-literate civilization.

I doubt all the dwarves are literate, but the book keeper and all the traders must be literate at least.  How else would a trader remember exactly what you wanted from them, year after year?  And true, this is pre-printing press era, but this paper money would be made out of clothing material since modern money isn't made of paper anyway.  The clothier can just sew the appropriate symbols of dwarfbucks on the money and the other dwarves learn which symbols mean which amounts (example, nobody closely examines a penny to figure out its worth, we all know the size, color, and symbols mean one cent, same as how different sizes, colors, and symbols mean varying amounts)

[profit]

Bleh... Lets just leave currency abstracted and lets just have it magically minted from air, weigh nothing, and not clutter the fort...

I hate to admit, but this intensely non realistic feature makes the game play a lot better....

I would like to trade with the caravans for credit though.... and have them bring stuff based on that...   If I have several million in narrow giant cave spider socks... and I want to ship it out... Well Let me do so... and let me buy stuff at ever increasing prices with the pretend monies...

Because, in a game its all pretend anyhow... I am good with it not being shown except as a memory variable being displayed using an Open GL call.

[Starver]

nobody closely examines a penny to figure out its worth, we all know the size, color, and symbols mean one cent

Hey.  My penny isn't worth one cent.  It's 1/100th of a Pound Sterling, and thus a little more than 1.5 of a leftpondian cent, slightly more than that in the aussie version, 2-and-a-bit kiwi ones, and 12 Hong Kongish type, thankyouverymuch, to take the most obvious examples.

Just saying.

[/derailing]

[Pilsu]

I don't think paper money has any place in the 1400s, even if it'd be convenient.

[Neonivek]

I don't think paper money has any place in the 1400s, even if it'd be convenient.

If only there were four legged animals in the 1400s who were capable of carrying much more then the average human being.

[Granite26]

I don't think paper money has any place in the 1400s, even if it'd be convenient.

Medici bank writs are RIGHT on the cusp, though...


Does anyone know of a 1400s society with the kind of wealth that a typical Dwarf Fort has?  I know that 1500s had all the Spanish mines and the craziness of that (actually, that's a good resource for the economics of a fort), but is there anything earlier?

[Neonivek]

Dwarf Forts have the ability to basically make cities out of Gold.

So the only cities I can think of with that much wealth is Atlantis and The City of Gold (both of them)

Then there are artifacts of rediculous wealth. A ordinary artifact is around 4000 and a bar of pure gold is worth about 150.

The Cheapest artifact is worth about 26 (13 after some research) bars of gold... You get 10 of them.

The more expencive artifacts are worth well over 500 bars of gold and the most expencive artifact possible is worth 60,000 bars of gold (Meaning one artifact is worth one city of gold... heck multiple)

[darkflagrance]

True, above...

Technically, without an in-game system of supply/demand, gold itself is a fiat currency.

[Dvergar]

I never thought about how fricken rich the dwarves can get, I would only imagine that will change at some point, I have imported every non-trade good brought to me for stone mugs....

[profit]

I never thought about how fricken rich the dwarves can get, I would only imagine that will change at some point, I have imported every non-trade good brought to me for stone mugs....

Yeah there are some minor balance tweaks that need to be made.

Actually, I would like to see MORE stuff being bought and sold by the dwarves...  I think if the actual dark ages had dwarfs who were as productive as the ones in the game, it would have ripped Europe out into the light, and they should be a major hub of trading if they want to be.