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[Leafsnail]

I voted him in the beginning.  :-D

Can't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever.  Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.

Org has, of course, been saying nothing, and I'm continuing to vote him to prevent any scum from doing the same and staying under the radar.  Exkirby, on the other hand, is not being helpful.  Defeatism is not useful - it's not inevitable that you will be lynched, and you should always do your best to win.  It's also a scumtell, to some extent, as a town player is more likely to continue to fight to the end, while a scum player may give up to avoid implicating any of his scum mates.

[Vector]

Whimsical usernames can often betray the true nature of their user's state of mind.
In contradictory terms, it means nothing.

Haha.  Because nothing means anything.  Moving on...

Unvote.

Who would be your favorite scum partner?

I can't say much about favorite, because I'm not really familiar with most of you being scum with me.  Free Beer worked out pretty well last time, though I think that LeafSnail might be entertaining to play with, too.  Both have fairly contemplative playing styles, even as town, which lends itself well to playing scum.

Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent.

Vector has been uncharacteristically pummeled with midterms.

unvote

Exkirby I always seem slightly scummy i just can't help it.

Org talk to us or die.

I feel like you're bandwagoning and not really scum-hunting.  Please stop.  If he shows up as scum, then... well, I guess I'll have to eat my feet, but as-is I feel like you're not contributing much.  Of course, if your hand is still hurt, then I understand your lack of informational posting and hope you get better soon.


On the other hand...

Wow, that made me think. And I think I want to vote Free Beer.

Yeah... Leaf, was that a random vote you placed on me? If so, why haven't you removed it? Just asking.

Anyway, tables seem to swing rapidly, so Unvote Vote Pandarsenic.

Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...

It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE (Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.), and bus him.

I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.

ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?

Well... ExKirby hasn't either. I don't recall having been asked any questions, actually. What, do you all intend to just ignore that I could be scum (Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.), as equal a probability as everyone else has? Question me!

I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.

Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this. (And what do you mean by that?)

Little flicks of the eye that, for me at the least, say a lot.

Now, back to the matter at hand. Many people say I'm bandwagoning. I don't mean to, I'm just making rookie mistakes. And I've made a lot... oh well, I'm new. What do you expect? And seeing as the tables have turned, Unvote Vote Diakron. He seems... mildly scummish... I just can't put my finger round why...

1. If you are new, then perhaps you should be playing in Beginner's, rather than bandwagoning on everything and everyone here and lurking your face off over there.  You've probably been in as many games as I have, for goodness' sake (I've finished 3 and been NK'd in my 4th).  You really should know a bit better.

2. Your reasoning is poor, and it seems to be mostly "Who has the most votes on them?  I'm voting for that person."  Your "eye-flicks" do nothing once you realize that your judgment is being occluded... some people have flickish eyes.

3. You are not behaving like you normally do.  That is, you are not asking any questions whatsoever, and you are being far more active.  I am deeply confused.

4. At this point, I want to lynch you just for information.

5. You aren't doing well at all with having votes on you.  You're being too jumpy.

6. Scum-slip, or moronitude.

Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...

You've stated right here that you're looking for reasoning after having gathered your opinion, rather than building an opinion from evidence.  I think you're scum looking for an easy ride.


Sorry, ExKirby.

[Apostolic Nihilist]

Free Beer seems like he's trying to defend ExKirby, or rather, trying to lead us away from him. ExKirby is acting extremely scummy right now, and Free Beer could be his partner. Note that Free Beer points out ExKirby's bandwagoning but then proceeds to ignore him.

In the quote below, Free Beer acknowledges that ExKirby is suspicious, but deflects to both Vector and Toonyman.
 

Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.

Something about this doesn't feel right; he's either not pursuing ExKirby because he figures that we're handling him pretty well, or he's trying to subtly shift the balance of votes back onto Pandarsenic.

Unvote. Vote Free Beer.

[Diakron]

in a few day i think i will dump the bandage and make a less constricting one typing will be easier.

you have good points there vector but i want to hear from org first before i start analyzing Exkirby

[Pandarsenic]

Ok, you want reasnoning? I'll see if there are quotes...

It's stupid for scum to draw attention to their partners. If mine did that to me, I would accuse him of trying to buddy up with me, an INNOCENT TOWNIE (Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.), and bus him.

I'm saying bribery never works and, like the OMGUS, is a null tell because everyone knows it never works.

ExKirby: Are you placing the third vote on me just for fun?

Well... ExKirby hasn't either. I don't recall having been asked any questions, actually. What, do you all intend to just ignore that I could be scum (Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.), as equal a probability as everyone else has? Question me!

I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.

Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this. (And what do you mean by that?)

Little flicks of the eye that, for me at the least, say a lot.

Now, back to the matter at hand. Many people say I'm bandwagoning. I don't mean to, I'm just making rookie mistakes. And I've made a lot... oh well, I'm new. What do you expect? And seeing as the tables have turned, Unvote Vote Diakron. He seems... mildly scummish... I just can't put my finger round why...

Oh, wait. Missed the red bits here.

"(Well, odds are that you are town. Stating that in bold seems scummist to me, as a deflecter.)"
I glossed over this earlier because I didn't get what you were saying. I meant that, in a theoretical situation, if I were scum and my partner was drawing attention to me, I would lead a bus against him - even originate it - to look more townie, like a VT who realized scum was trying to get my gratitude.

"(Maybe so, but when three people point the gun at you, you usually try to give reasoning on their own accord.)"
I'm saying you should be questioning me while voting me - a townie is as likely as scum to crack when three people vote him with no reason and voters refusing to provide reasons for their votes.

"(And what do you mean by that?)"
I mean webadict, despite being one of our best players, does not have my vote guaranteed to follow his, even when a ploy leads to him becoming a confirmed townie. Even the best of us make mistakes, so it's necessary that we all see your reasoning. If you don't give it, you don't likely have any - or you're stalling for time to collect after-the-fact "reasoning," but it's evidence compiled to support a presupposed argument - backwards logic that yields backwards results.

[Org]

I AM MAKING A HAM SAMVICH LULZ

No

Sorry, I forgot I was in any mafias. Again.

"Org, why are you never helpful in any Mafia ever?"
I have no idea. It seems I always forget or never post or try taking a passive stance. I guess I must completely change myself.

I do slightly agree with Vector, Diakron seems somewhat as a bandwagoning. '

ExKirby, you are changing your vote ALOT. 4 times in a day?

Exkirby

[Free Beer]

Free Beer seems like he's trying to defend ExKirby, or rather, trying to lead us away from him. ExKirby is acting extremely scummy right now, and Free Beer could be his partner. Note that Free Beer points out ExKirby's bandwagoning but then proceeds to ignore him.

In the quote below, Free Beer acknowledges that ExKirby is suspicious, but deflects to both Vector and Toonyman.
 

Vector and ToonyMan have been uncharacteristically silent. And I think most of us want a reason from ExKirby.

Something about this doesn't feel right; he's either not pursuing ExKirby because he figures that we're handling him pretty well, or he's trying to subtly shift the balance of votes back onto Pandarsenic.

Apostolic Nihilist, you are accusing me on grounds that I'm not bandwagoning.

[...]
I don't think Leafsnail is town. I just don't think that particular action he made was worth pursuing, at least at the time. It's a null tell.

Oh, and ExKirby, name your reasons or die. Honestly. If I won't vote with webadict when he's a confirmed townie until I hear his reasons, I sure as hell won't take this.

I'm satisfied with this answer. Unvote.

Diakron, I repeat my earlier question to you: What was wrong with voting Pandarsenic?

Vector, is the scum group an Abelian group? Why or why not?

Leafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him? And why did you react so strongly to ToonyMan's accusations toward you, both then and now? Is his opinion of you really so important?

[Diakron]

Diakron, I repeat my earlier question to you: What was wrong with voting Pandarsenic?

thought i answered that: There is nothing wrong with voting in the RVS but jumping around without waiting for responses is scummy.

[Vector]

Vector, is the scum group an Abelian group? Why or why not?

.... Hardeeharharhar.  Define me a binary operation under which the scum are closed, and I'll tell you if it's abelian or not.

With the assumption that the scum in this game form a group, however, we know that one must be the identity scum (ident-scum), and that to be closed under whatever operation you've come up with (scumx)(scumx) = (ident-scum).  Hence the group is trivially abelian, and scumx is a generator for the scum group.

In the quote below, Free Beer acknowledges that ExKirby is suspicious, but deflects to both Vector and Toonyman.

Apostolic Nihilist, you are accusing me on grounds that I'm not bandwagoning.

I think the key point here that you may be building bandwagons by proxy--that is, saying ExKirby is suspicious while heading off to vote someone else.  That will increase votes on ExKirby and leave you clean.

Of course, if you think ExKirby is semi-suspicious and now want to go pressure Pandarsenic, that makes sense.  It's mostly that there's a potential scum-play going on.

Diakron, I repeat my earlier question to you: What was wrong with voting Pandarsenic?

thought i answered that: There is nothing wrong with voting in the RVS but jumping around without waiting for responses is scummy.

Hmm.  Disagree, and suggest you look for other data because hanging onto this piece makes you look kind of bad.

[Pandarsenic]

Vector: I disagree - nobody should get off without answering their RVS questions. It makes it too easy for scum to get away unnoticed.

[Vector]

Vector, is the scum group an Abelian group? Why or why not?

.... Hardeeharharhar.  Define me a binary operation under which the scum are closed, and I'll tell you if it's abelian or not.

With the assumption that the scum in this game form a group, however, we know that one must be the identity scum (ident-scum), and that to be closed under whatever operation you've come up with (scumx)(scumx) = (ident-scum).  Hence the group is trivially abelian, and scumx is a generator for the scum group.

Gah, I'm a moron.  Clearly, we could have x^2 = x as well, but it's still trivially abelian.  (scumx)(scumx) can be anything in the scum group S and remain abelian, because the multiplication table is going to be symmetric no matter what you do.

Vector: I disagree - nobody should get off without answering their RVS questions. It makes it too easy for scum to get away unnoticed.

It's not a question of not answering RVS questions.  It's a question of switching targets before the RVS questions are answered, which (as far as I know) really shouldn't be considered a scum-tell.  If someone looks like scum and you happen to have voted Random Dude V, it's perfectly fine to switch over to scumboy.

If you have some other sort of interpretation of the above situation, please let me know.

[Diakron]

ok i guess i should say "Is scummy to me" or something similar for i have noticed quite a few scum ignore RVS question and you yourself vector jump all over people when they dont answer them so if i ask Scum1 a question then Newb2 goofs and i vote them then Scum1 gets to calmly start integrating himself into the game.


time taken to wirte this post: just over 12 minutes

[Vector]

ok i guess i should say "Is scummy to me" or something similar for i have noticed quite a few scum ignore RVS question and you yourself vector jump all over people when they dont answer them so if i ask Scum1 a question then Newb2 goofs and i vote them then Scum1 gets to calmly start integrating himself into the game.


time taken to wirte this post: just over 12 minutes

 

No, it's true that I'll definitely eat anyone who doesn't answer an RVS question.  I think the difference here is that, if newb2 goofs and I vote him, scum1 is not going to get off easy for ignoring questions.  I will be watching him for a while and then proceed to bite his face off next time he slips.

Really, I think it's about whether you are good at focusing on multiple targets or not.  I believe in watching the structure of the entire game, while I think others might forget the question that they asked to go with their random vote.

[Pandarsenic]

Fair 'nough, Vector. I'll be the first to admit I have trouble catching people who aren't participating. I'm very bad at dealing with lurkers. I'll never see them unless someone points them out.

Luckily, I have the rest of the townies with me to do that.

[Leafsnail]

Leafsnail, why did you defend Pandarsenic when I voted him? And why did you react so strongly to ToonyMan's accusations toward you, both then and now? Is his opinion of you really so important?

I didn't really react strongly to him on either occasion.

And good evening to you too, Toony.  Anti-FoS for behaving just as you normally do.

Can't say I can see the logic behind this, but whatever.  Actually, you seem to be a bit less focused on one player than usual, which is weird, but probably good from a town perspective.

The main reason is because, well, ignoring an accusation of you and trying to stay under the radar isn't helpful from a town perspective.  It's far better to put out your arguments and thoughts than to simply stand back like a meek lamb and do nothing at all.  Yes, perhaps one random vote on me isn't important, but it would be better if we can band together and find scum.

Also, you seem to be forgetting the background behind you voting Pandarsenic - you only did it because he didn't seize on something I said, partly as a joke, in the random vote stage.  It didn't seem to make much sense as an accusation - especially since scum defending each other is actually fairly rare, rare to the point of defending someone (slightly) being a null tell.  A scum player is more likely to distance himself from his partner, or perhaps even kick him as he falls to avoid drawing suspicion to himself.

Vote remains on Org, again, for making a post that contained nothing but a bandwagon on an easy target.  It could be lazy town, I suppose, but it's certainly not helpful.