Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[JoshuaFH]

Yes, but then:

Alright, I've been reading some things:

I'm going to reveal my role, seeing that Diakron can confirm me.

I am the Unlimited Voter, sorry for the confusion, but I think the Infinity Voter is scum because his role is suspiciously like mine, and so far in these Vote Mafia games, people who have similar roles usually one of them is scum.

The Infinity Voter is also more powerful than me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around why you'd roleclaim. I can understand the whole "wanting to appear town" concept, but this ultimately doesn't accomplish anything. What I mean by this is, if you were in fact town, you wouldn't have to worry about how your power might implicate you, because it'd be your power to use against the mafia, and this only throws you out into the open. By doing this, you've made yourself worthless to the town in a practical sense. So, through this I'm led to believe that this was all aethetics, what do you think about that Toonyman?

Although, I guess my vote doesn't really matter, since your power can overpower everyone else's.

Actually, ToonyMan, the vote counter is the obvious counter to your role, although the infinity voter is another counter as well. However, counter-role |= scum.

Vote Free Beer. Ignore his list, it probably has 2 scum in one of the groups. I think he's scum trying to "clear" a teamate. If not that, then he's just an idiot who might accidentally "clear" a scum in any case.

Do you mind if I question you on your vote of Free Beer? His lists were very sensible, and your accusation is very vague. Can you point out what you don't like about it exactly? What I mean is, if you're going to preemptively accuse him of WIFOM'ing the town, then come out and say it.

So once again, pretty sure.

But if we're going to try to do this vote counter thing, I guess I'll unvote vote Zaithemaster.

[JanusTwoface]

Yeah, I missed that one.

I'll keep my vote where it is until the Vote Counter comes around.  Although I can go ahead and say now that it will show 1 vote for me.

[Mephansteras]

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say the following:
As with previous Vote Mafias, it is likely that webadict attempted to balance the scum team. If two people have similar powers, I'm willing to bet at least one is scum.
Toward that end, I think at one person in each of the following sets: {Infinity Voter, Unlimited Voter, Double Voter, Triple Voter, Fibonacci Voter}, {Vote Counter, Copycat Voter}, and {No Voter, Vote Amplifier, Motivator, Negative Voter, (whatever Pandarsenic's role is), Unknown Voter} is scum.
The reasoning is simple: With that setup, the mafia gets one information gathering power, one lynch power, and one buddying/"unlikely to be scum" power.

I voted him because this is false and he is, in fact, going to wind up WIFOMing the town that way. Think about what's he saying. We've all agree'd that Webadict makes the setup randomly. Thus, he doesn't "balance" the scum team. Well, there you go, we all agree what he's saying is wrong and thus THIS PART OF HIS POST should be ignored.

However, here's something we should consider. It's unlikely that Webadict would allow a Triple Voter, Double Voter, Fibonacci Voter scum-team, especially with the Vote Amplifier and Nonvoter as town. If that's the scumteam, we've already lost unless we lynch them today or tomorrow anyways, so it's a wash. Other than that, except for how everybody uses their role, we really can't deduce anything from roles alone. Period.

Fake edit: FoS Diakron for trying to use Gambler's Fallacy to push a lynch on ToonyMan.

Ok, I'm going to Unvote Frelock. Hiding your power isn't horribly suspicious and he owned up to it. So he's off my probably-scum list and back down to possibly scum.

Now, Mr. Person, your logic here seems a bit suspect. I feel that webadict is a perfectly competent GM, and he's NOT going to start the game off with an unbalanced set-up. It's not completely random. It never is, with this many power roles.

So, looking for possible scum-combinations is perfectly good scum-hunting in cases like this. It's true that any 1 role could be scum, so it is random that way. But it's not totally random and I find your attempts to totally squash Free Beer's scum-hunting tactic suspect. How do we know he isn't on to something and you're not just trying to protect you and your scum-buddies?

I'm going to vote Mr.Person for now. He could be right, and Free Beer could easily be scum trying to look helpful why throwing us off the scent. On the other hand, we all did lots of this sort of thing in previous rounds and it was pretty helpful, even when we weren't exactly right.

There is also the possibility that Mr.Person and Free Beer are scum-buddies and trying to bus one another, kind of how Frelock attacked chaoticjosh last round during Day 1. It was a pretty effective tactic, and I wouldn't be surprised if the scum tried the same trick this time.

Hmm...I'll leave my vote on Mr.Person for now, but I'm also going to look at the previous games to see if Free Beer is on to something or if he's just pulling up nice looking 'logic' that doesn't mesh with what actually happened before.. This whole argument is really bugging me for some reason.

[Mr.Person]

While it's true the previous rounds had some fairly balanced role setups and I'm certain the Webadict wouldn't allow GROSSLY unfair and unfun setups, there really is no reason to suggest a list like that. I see no reason that the scum couldn't be, say, the Vote Amplifier, the Fibonacci Voter, and the Motivator. It's pretty crazy in the end-game but if the fib voter gets lynched, that's that.

The only thing I'd be willing to say is that one of the Double Voter, Fibonacci Voter, Triple Voter, Infinity Voter, and Unlimited Voter is probably scum. Hell, I'm not even willing to say THAT for sure. You really can't guess with that kind of thing, stop trying to defend this. It's wrong, we all agree'd the setup was random.

[Mephansteras]

What's wrong with guessing like that? What's wrong with coming up with various 'likely' combinations and grilling the people with those roles once we know who they are? It's scum-hunting. The whole point is to make the scum sweat and make a mistake.

Even if you randomly guess the combination of roles and just happen to be right, out of dumb luck, you can sometimes get the scum to panic and give themselves away. Webadict does this all the time in mafia games. He comes up with some random reason for some people to be scum, grills them on it, and watches to see who gives themselves away. He's usually wrong about most of the scum, but it still works well in finding the one out of the batch that is scum. So it's worth it.

Besides, it's day 1, what else do we have to go off of?

I'm not saying it's a correct list, and I'm not saying it's even the best tactic to go on later in the game once we have more evidence to go on. But it's just fine as a day 1 strategy and your insistence that it's incorrect and scummy makes me suspicious. Why do you care so much? What about that list of his makes you so nervous that you're adamant that it's wrong?

[Mr.Person]

I care because, at the time, I thought he might of been scum trying to "clear" his friends. His later responses make me think he's not scum, actually. I would unvote him, but the whole vote-counter thing means I've got to keep my vote on someone until he counts. There's still time to find somebody else to vote for. And hey, I guess you're right. I just wasn't a fan of the list, really. That's dangerous WIFOM territory.

[Mephansteras]

Rnd 1

Org -Swing Voter                  (scum)
Mr.Person - Infinity Voter
Pandarsenic - Forceful Voter
inaluct - Negative Voter
ToonyMan - Secret Voter           (scum)
Kashyyk/Leafsnail - Lovestruck Voter
Mephansteras - Motivational Voter
Frelock - Vote Counter
chaoticjosh - Triple Voter
JanusTwoFace - Lynch Delayer      (scum)
Zaithemaster - Vote Blocker


---------------------
Rnd 2

Org - Shielded Voter
Mephansteras - Super-voter
ToonyMan - Undecided Voter
Leafsnail - Vengeful Voter
Mr.Person - Doctor Voter
Zaithemaster - Fibonacci Voter
Pandarsenic - Mirror Voter
chaoticjosh - Vote Stealer      (scum)
Frelock - Vote Seer             (scum)
JanusTwoface - Vote Reporter
Diakron - Twin Voter            (scum)


Here are the role-lists for the last two games, and who was scum.

From what I see here, things look like Webadict did try to balance things pretty well in the previous games. I'm not sure that Free Beer's groupings are necessarily correct (we didn't have groups like that in the last two games), but he's not obviously wrong, either.

I'm still kind of suspicious of both Free Beer and Mr.Person, since that kind of random argument is frequently a scum tactic on Day 1. Make them look like they have nothing to do with each other so no one figures out they are on the same team.
FOS: Free Beer, Mr.Person

I'll leave my vote on Mr. Person for now. At least that way when the Vote counter does his thing I'll show up on it.

I'm going to have to go back through the thread and look at everything else again, though. Mr.Person did at least back down a little bit, and I don't want to focus so much on these two that I miss other clues.

[Diakron]

i have come up with a good argue meant against me "Using gamblers Fallacy to push a lynch on toony."i  wasn't pushing a lynch, i was voting for a reason and that was my reason. i did not say "Hey everyone vote toony, becuase of this reason."

However i will Unvote as my reasoning is no longer true.

at this time Free Beer looks suspicious to me for i do not think that a townie would have decided to give any roles up to the scum this early in the game.

[Mephansteras]

at this time Free Beer looks suspicious to me for i do not think that a townie would have decided to give any roles up to the scum this early in the game.

Can you elaborate on that, Diakron?

[ToonyMan]

i have come up with a good argue meant against me "Using gamblers Fallacy to push a lynch on toony."i  wasn't pushing a lynch, i was voting for a reason and that was my reason. i did not say "Hey everyone vote toony, becuase of this reason."

However i will Unvote as my reasoning is no longer true.

at this time Free Beer looks suspicious to me for i do not think that a townie would have decided to give any roles up to the scum this early in the game.

...

Why Diakron?  Why do you make yourself so suspicious?!

We have come to a decision to have everybody vote someone so we can see if anybody is lying and etc.  Please vote someone, even if it's me, I don't care.

[Diakron]

o ya sorry i just woke up and had forgotten that

vote Free Beer for now.

[JanusTwoface]

Summary: It's a defense of why we're planning on using the Vote Counter to identify everyone.

at this time Free Beer looks suspicious to me for i do not think that a townie would have decided to give any roles up to the scum this early in the game.

While this is an entirely good reason in some circumstances, I think in Vote Mafias it will just help the scum more than the townies.  Mafia is a game of uninformed majority (town) versus informed minority (scum).  Since the scum are free to share information, they can piece together a pretty good picture of everyone's roles without nearly as much work.  I know this from Vote Mafia 1 when I was scum.  If I remember correctly, I knew all of the roles (or almost all) pretty quickly.

Consider this, at the very beginning of the game, each townie knows of 2 roles and who has one role (their own).  Each mafia member knows up to 6 roles and who has at least 3 of them (if there isn't any overlap, it will probably be better than this).

Overall, it's basically a Mass Claim in a normal mafia game, only we can confirm everyone's claim, rather than having to determine if they are actually telling the truth or lying.

Granted, exposing everyone does give the scum better targets to choose from, but I think it also allows the town to make much more informed decisions and scum-hunt much more effectively.  I think that it's a fair trade in Vote Mafia.

[JanusTwoface]

On the other hand (and back to your actual post), Free Beer's post was a little odd to claim.  We would have figured out soon enough with the Vote Counter in the game (although he looks like the Triple Voter today and the Motivator and Vote Amplifier could both mess with that).

And Diakron, why did you vote Free Beer just now?  To each his own play style, but it's generally a good idea to put a little bit of information about why you are voting someone.  If you're town, then we have your suspicious to work with.  If you're scum, we can try to use those bits to trip you up later in the game (sorry, but that's how it goes).

[JanusTwoface]

Actually, ignore the second half.  You're voting because of what ToonyMan said.  Sorry.

Although a reason would still be nice.

I'm going to stop posting for a bit, that was quite a lot of text to throw out all in one go...

[Diakron]

sorry I cant seem to get my stuff together this morning i'm more then a little hungover and coffee is not helping