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[Moddan]

Would you varifying the review? He says that your combat skills determine weather nor not your attack actually "connect" and the aiming is just part of it.

The Eurogamer review is crap, the reviewer obviously got pissed after a few minutes of sucking and logged. Imo he never gave Darkfall a chance, he just didn't want to. It's not an objective review.

But it's true, if you are not willing to invest some hours in getting used to the game, you will not enjoy Darkfall. If you can't get over getting killed and looted in sometimes hilariously unfair situations (getting roflstomped by a 12 man group while fishing), it's no good for you. Then losing is no fun for you.

To answer your question, your character skills do not determine if you hit someone or not. Your personal aim does and your connection. Only the on-hit damage is based on your character skills, your stats, your weapon and your opponents armor.

Like in I guess every other fps latency is an issue.
People with a ping > 100 will experience ghostings, i.e. melee attacks seemingly going through the opponent without hitting, etc.
As a German I got like 20 ping (EU server is located in Germany) and never had any problems with that.

Archery is like in Mount&Blade. You got a trajectory and so you have to aim high to hit on distance. With a low ping you can get really good with it after a while. I have seen players shooting some poor fellows off their horses over great distances without harming the mounts at all.

Also, every system I've seen where you have to aim successfully at an enemy, and THEN it makes a check, is really just annoying, especially since you can't tell why you missed. At the very least, make it obvious you were blocked.

In Darkfall you can see if you missed(no blood or flash), successfully landed a hit(blood) or got blocked(yellow flash).

[creodor]

Another possible alternative would be to take a look at http://www.mortalonline.com. In beta (early, closed beta) at the moment, but supposedly launching sometime in Q4 this year. I'd love to give lots of juicy beta-details, but I can't. Curse you NDA! The devs try to communicate with the community, and there are some good posts with lots of relevant info and question-answering, although that has slowed way down due to the massive load of work the beta put on them. What can I say without risking my account . . . the devs have stated that they drew a lot of influence from Ultima Online, combat is all twitch based, full-loot, full pvp . . . a lot of the same stuff as Darkfall, really, but done differently in many cases.
Also, sorry to be useless to the actual topic, but I have no opinion on Darkfall as I've never played it.

[zarmazarma]

Well I suppose I can't argue with some one that actually played, but the reviewer did say that he put 9 hours into the game. Clearly the dark fall devs were pissed. I'm starting to hate the game though, I've got two brits in my vent that continuously talk about it in the wrong channel.

[beorn080]

If a fight is won or lost, and I lose all my gear if I lose, on a mere 80 ping difference, the game is bad. Even good FPSes, while ping dependent, aren't nearly that ping dependent.

[Virtz]

If a fight is won or lost, and I lose all my gear if I lose, on a mere 80 ping difference, the game is bad. Even good FPSes, while ping dependent, aren't nearly that ping dependent.

I can't recall playing any FPS where 100ms wouldn't screw you over compared to others who aren't lagging. And you do have to consider that this isn't exactly meant for 32 people, either.

Although personally I don't like the idea of FPS combat in an MMORPG. It most often ends up looking ridiculous and feeling unsatisfying.

[Asehujiko]

Eurogamer had another review done and this passage drew my attention:(emphasis mine)

Darkfall's control system is, to be polite, a mess. It is, to be less polite, a bloody infuriating graceless mess.

It manages to be so on such a fundamental level that when I explain it it's going to sound as confusing as it actually is in play. Even simple tasks like swapping weapons manage to become potentially disastrous. As a Dwarf Fortress veteran, wrestling with oblique control systems isn't the problem - it's marrying these sorts of controls with a real-time action game that demands fluidity. If you're stuck trying to remember which exact combination of buttons are required to do the task in hand, it's not exactly conducive playing the bally thing.

The result this time was a 4/10 but the biggest "positive" point was that the game had potential to improve. While i guess this is a fair point for games that are supposed to last a while, i don't like the idea of giving bad games bonus points for things the developer might or might not do in the future.

[zarmazarma]

Haha. Beautiful. They act like Darkfall is a "mmorpg revolution" and Eurogamer spits in there face; twice.

Virtz, wanting a lot less than 100ms is like having to have the optimal '60fps'. I'm fine with 150~ ms. Over 200 and I fear that I might lag, but I'm never screwed up at 100ms.

I like the idea that you can aim your shots, it makes it feel like you're actually doing something.

[beorn080]

I've played a few FPSes, and I do agree that SOME are so twitch based that such a minor amount of lag would kill. A system with skills and stats should NOT be twitched based. I'm fine with aiming and getting into position, but you shouldn't be moving so fast that it becomes twitch based, especially in an MMO where fights can be quite massive, and DEFINITELY not in an equipment based game with full loot.

[Virtz]

Virtz, wanting a lot less than 100ms is like having to have the optimal '60fps'. I'm fine with 150~ ms. Over 200 and I fear that I might lag, but I'm never screwed up at 100ms.

Well, I guess it depends on netcode implementation. But I really have played FPSes where 100+ ms meant you started seeing people teleport around and they weren't neccessarily bad games (the most notable example of good game - bad netcode I know is AvP2).

I like the idea that you can aim your shots, it makes it feel like you're actually doing something.

Perhaps, but not only does it violate roleplay by letting you handle the combat skills, it also looks freaking ridiculous. People circle strafing, running like headless chickens, occassionally attacking enemies that briefly appear in front of them for a quarter of a second and so on. This is how it looked in Face of Mankind. And judging from Darkfall videos, that's similar in melee, except with notably more range.

Perhaps it could be handled so that it doesn't look that way, but I question if it can be done. FoM tried to minimize this by slowing strafing to a crawl, the result was just that people started running ahead and turning a lot more instead, which actually looked even more ridiculous than normal CS-esque circle-strafing. The only way I can think of of making it look normal is by semi-realistic health systems, so that people are dead before they get into range to begin this ridiculous dance.

[Leafsnail]

The winner of a fight should be determined by skill at the game or even (if it must be the case) levels but not by who's the best at Ring-a-ring-a-roses.

[zarmazarma]

The winner of a fight should be determined by skill at the game or even (if it must be the case) levels but not by who's the best at Ring-a-ring-a-roses.

Well of course it still is. It's not like a complete 'fps'. You aim your shots, but your skill determines how much damage you'll do. You can do your little dance with some one 10 levels (or w/e it is in darkfall) above you and you'll get roflstomped.

Sure the dance is something some people don't like, but I rather enjoy it. Alright, it looks bad, but it's like a ritualistic spar in pvp. In wurm we've got the thunder tango... Oh god... The thunder tango...

[sneakey pete]

If you can't get over getting killed and looted in sometimes hilariously unfair situations (getting roflstomped by a 12 man group while fishing), it's no good for you. Then losing is no fun for you.

If the game can't give some motivation for getting over that then its no good.

[Moddan]

The 100ms ping I stated might have been a bit low. I know guys with 200ms who actually fight quite well. But fact is in Darkfall that you will miss more often with bow or small aoe spells the higher your ping is. A high ping in melee can be somewhat offset with good anticipational skills and experience.

Atm the biggest problem in pvp is that there are a good number of guys around that nolifed several elemental magic schools up to a point where they can just rotate through their high end nukes. As it is now, spells of different magic schools do not share a common cooldown.
A causal player with semi-good magic stands no chance against that in a 1on1 situation.

[beorn080]

So yet another problem. FPS with multiple high end, large AoE weapons that don't share cooldown. Plus, not everyone can use them without massive grinding, and however long you grind, you probably won't catch up. This game seems OH SO good now.

[Moddan]

Correct, though the cooldown problem will most likely be fixed soon.
They actually did a quite good job fixing game breakers in the past.
Anyways, if you don't like FPS this game is not for you.