Also defended an array of people and gave them second chances, in hopes of finding actual scum and not going off randomly. You were one of those people. If I'm scum, why would I give you a second chance? You're clever. Do you think that if Jim and I were working in concert, we'd go for BloodBeard instead of webadict or you, given that both of you are running circles around the rest of us and BloodBeard was hardly saying anything?
Unless I missed some posts, the only person you second chanced was me once I finally came here. Untill then, you were accusing me of lurking...
I second-chanced Org in the beginning, when Jim wanted to lynch him. I second-chanced eduren. I second-chanced you. I kept things open for webadict when he was attacking me, on the off chance that he was just being extremely careful. I also defended webadict from ToonyMan's allegations.
You said you were going to wait until he slipped. I have documented an array of slips. You have ignored them. I accused him of lying. You ignored that, too.
You requested that I defend myself. You have ignored my defenses. You're panicking and getting excited because you're going to be able to take me down before webadict destroys you--is that it? If you're so afraid of webadict, maybe you should go after the hard lynch instead of, say, lynching townies.
That's NOT good enough. I WoTed Eduren with a threat of LynchAllLiers. Did he try the "I know you are but what am I?" argument? No. He ANSWERED my threats with reasons and explanations. He spilled his guts and told what he could of himself. I dropped suspicions afterwards. I did the same to Web and he replied explaining likewise..not the BEST explanation but it was something. I left FoS on him but dropped vote.
I do the same to you and expect explanations, reasoned arguments, and a reason for me to turn from you two and aim at web and perhaps Toony again.
I've given my explanations and reasoned arguments. I will post them again in a more concise format, if I have to. Please just listen to me, because it seems like no one else is.
I considered him scum, but not dangerous scum. Dangerous scum is scum that can hide perfectly within the town. I thought of him more like pond scum, really. You can see it there and you can decide what you're going to do with it, rather than needing to take care of it ASAP and kill it. Besides, it might not even be scum, but something entirely different. Does that make sense to you, or would you like me to explain my thinking process further?
As previously stated, I'm willing to give people time to change their tune. The first day is about feeling people out. I do that by attacking and backing away, though apparently my particular style gets me tagged "wishy-washy." Why is it, then, that others are allowed to back off and send out general FoS's?
Because most threaten, let the other defend themselves, then pull back. Again, I point to Eduren. Blah, I point to you right now. I threaten you, you defend, and if the defense works then I pull back.
You threatened and pulled back in the same post. That's not a true threat on Eduren. It's especially not when you leave your vote OFF him.
Contrast, I accuse you, I VOTE for you causing you to reply. THAT is accusation. If I pull my vote now, it'll because you've proven yourself to me and showed evidence.
In fact, why did "I" have to prove myself by posting before getting the vote off me while someone you truely felt was scum gets off with just a FoS? Once I proved myself, the vote should've went to Eduren, especially since Eduren's threats were fading away and Org wasn't exactly hiding well.
I've already explained this, but I will explain it one more time. Eduren might have been scum, but I didn't know. I didn't have enough information yet. You proved yourself, and then the vote went to Org because he looked more suspicious than eduren. Why lynch eduren if Org looked worse? It seemed pointless. So, I didn't go for the eduren-lynch. I don't want to answer this question again.
I'm talking about mathematical logic here, not my emotions and suspicions. Eduren behaved scummishly. This does not mean he is scum. Obviously, this was true of Org--so it also may apply to eduren. Then, just because eduren wants Toony lynched very badly and Toony flips town does not mean that eduren is scum. I took exception to Toony's absolute statements, where it sounded like he was using deductive logic to arrive at faulty conclusions.
If you think I was being pedantic and taking things too literally... why, yes I was. I happen to like my logic clean and free of misuse.
But it sounds too jumpy, not just literal. You accuse at the same time that you defend. Now if we add in what you just said now, you actually believed that he WAS scum and was just after the second one...so WHY defend him? Why not just say "He's scum, but not dangerous?" Why sound like you have doubts if, as you say now, you were sure?
If you weren't sure, why tell me now that: "I considered him scum, but not dangerous scum. " That sounds definite while your posts sound wishy washy. If you had said "I thought he could be scum but wasn't sure" it would make sense.. you say you felt he WAS... yet still wish washed.
Note, second chance =! wish wash. I'm GIVING you your second chance now and I voted to KILL YOU. I give you that chance but I show just how much I believe you're scum.
Passiveness is a mafia tell.
I accused ToonyMan of bad logic (possibly unintentional, though possibly scummy) and defended both eduren and webadict. I didn't defend myself. If you think my posts are jumpy... well, okay. I guess you're entitled to your opinions. I will submit here, however, that I'm not the one spewing exclamation points and blocks of capitalization.
Yeah, I jumped on someone for using bad logic. What do you expect? I'm a math major. I plan on spending the rest of my life looking for logical fallacies and improper deductions. Bad logic literally makes me feel sick.
Why defend eduren? Because I didn't know if he was scum or not. I
thought he was scum, but there was space for other interpretations, as there always are. I didn't know. I'm willing to defend anyone, because the truth is worth more than my life.
And again: I considered him scum. It is definite that I considered him scum. It is not definite that he is scum. Therefore, if you asked me "Is eduren scum or not," I would say "Well, maybe. Probably. Dunno." If you asked me "Do you think eduren is scum," I would say "Yeah, I think he's scum, though there is a high degree of uncertainty." These are two different interpretations. I use the word "consider" as a much weaker variant of "think" or "believe."
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm weaseling out. I tend to think very literally, and flexibility with language is not my forte.
Passiveness is not only a mafia tell. It's also a character trait. Take a look at the passiveness, in combination with the niceness--the tendency to defend everyone, even my enemies. The tendency to apologize to people before I insult them. The tendency to give second chances. My desire to not feel rude by evading questions, thus answering anything that comes up to the best of my ability. Doesn't that all go together pretty well?
It also fits with the sort of person who is part of a forum for six months and then only posts three times. Don't mistake scum passiveness for genuine introversion, shyness, and uncertainty.
Is this not gut-spilling enough for you? I'm already telling you that I have trouble using language flexibly and that in real life I'm a doormat. I also told everyone that this is essentially my first experience with mafia. Of course I'm making lots of mistakes. Of course my posts aren't that analytical, and of course I seem to be behaving kind of oddly. It's surprising that you didn't lynch me on day one.
If there are further questions, I will answer them to the best of my ability.
Author
Topic: Beginners Mafia - Game over! (Read 72102 times)