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[bandaidman]

Will they fire off of the top of a wall without a fortification?  Right now, I have orcs all around my 1 z-level tall fort.  I have recruits with crossbows on the tops of the walls, but they dont seem to be firing.

Any advice?

[HatfieldCW]

My guys will shoot from multiple z-levels above the enemy, if they have line-of-sight on them.  Do they have ammo?

[Grendus]

Walls create a small deadzone. Squares surrounding a tower equal to the tower's height can't be hit from the edge, and I believe standing back from the wall also affects this, though to what extent I don't know.

It's possible the orcs are simply standing in the deadzone. More likely, your dwarves have no ammo. They're trying to go to attack the orcs with their bows as hammers instead of getting more. I'd suggest just waiting the siege out, or maybe trying to arm them while they're on duty.

[bandaidman]

Yeah, they had quivers but no ammo.  I feel so embarassed. 

[XSI]

As small suggestion, always keep a few metal bolts around for combat use, dwarves will not practice with them, even the crappy copper ones are saved for real targets.

And a few sets of iron or copper bolts costs next to nothing.

[Rowanas]

well, cost nothing if you've got loads. Only now, after playing a few games do I realise how good my first fortress embark location was. I searched for ages afterwards to find a non-freezing water source, and on top of that it had flux, loads of iron and copper, sapphires, a defendable position, good trees and plants, lots of harmless huntable widlife etc etc. My new fortresses are nowhere near that safe.

[HatfieldCW]

I know what you mean.  My first serious fort had four z-levels that were pretty much all iron ore, and since then all I get is copper.  I can't even find any tin for bronze.  I even used reveal on my latest fort.  Fifteen vertical levels with three crummy veins of copper and aluminum ores.  Thank goodness for goblinite.

[Skorpion]

They will. Fortifications just stop incoming fire.

For ammo, by far the most abundant resource is the bones of your enemies. *goblin bone bolts* (30) and a few stacks of *goblin bone bolts* (5), plus a *goblin skull totem* to trade.
Plus for a melee goblin, you get a few iron bars and some narrow leather/silk clothing. For a marksgoblin, his weapon and any leftover ammo.

[Albedo]

Fortifications have nothing to do with whether anyone can shoot or not.

You can attach fortifications to the top edge of a wall, "leaning out" over empty space.  Gives your guys protection.  Also creates a 3-tile area at the base of the wall that they can't see - but the AI isn't smart enough to use that (on purpose.)

[PencilinHand]

Fortifications have nothing to do with whether anyone can shoot or not.

You can attach fortifications to the top edge of a wall, "leaning out" over empty space.  Gives your guys protection.  Also creates a 3-tile area at the base of the wall that they can't see - but the AI isn't smart enough to use that (on purpose.)

Actually, fortifications can have an impact on if someone can shoot or not as there is a skill check to see if the shooter is elite(I don't know the exact skill level, but if they are marked elite then they can make the shot) for shooting through fortifications provided you are not immediately next to the fortifications.

See the following.

Code: [Select]

g..._#@
. ground
_ channeled ground
# fortification
@ marksdwarf
g bow goblin

The goblin can not shoot the dwarf, unless the goblin is an elite marksman,  because the goblin is not right next to the fortification. 
The marksdwarf can shoot the goblin, regardless of his crossbow skill level, because he is right next to the fortification.

[zarmazarma]

Emm, I love my current fortress location... I was making a cistern when I found I was sitting on a friken gold mine. (Or, magnetite, which also contained so much native platinum it was insane.) I've got malachite, which can make copper, all the makings of steel, native platinum, various gems... All that good stuff. And heavily forested trees and plants in my other biome. I've got a river in the center and everything...

I suggest putting one crafts dwarf to make bone bolts, so they alaways have something to train with, and your metal smith to make copper bolts. I do this just to get rid of the extra copper, than I switch him to make iron bolts, or, if you prefer, keep making copper while your smelter makes steel, than make steel bolts.

[Albedo]

Fortifications have nothing to do with whether anyone can shoot or not.

Actually, fortifications can have an impact on if someone can shoot or not...

No, they do NOT.

PiH - don't confuse people. (Or allow me to help you stop being confused.)

Two identical dwarves are armed with crossbows, one near a fortification, the other not.  BOTH SHOOT.  NO DIFFERENCE in whether or not they are able to shoot.

Whether or not they HIT, whether or not the fortification blocks that shot, is a different discussion from the OP.

The goblin can not shoot the dwarf, unless the goblin is an elite marksman,  because the goblin is not right next to the fortification. 

Wrong again. The goblin can shoot at the dwarf, and can successfully shoot the dwarf if they get lucky.  A fortification is never a "wall", never a perfect defense - there is always a non-zero chance for the shot to hit.

[PencilinHand]

Fortifications have nothing to do with whether anyone can shoot or not.

Actually, fortifications can have an impact on if someone can shoot or not...

No, they do NOT.

PiH - don't confuse people. (Or allow me to help you stop being confused.)

Two identical dwarves are armed with crossbows, one near a fortification, the other not.  BOTH SHOOT.  NO DIFFERENCE in whether or not they are able to shoot.

Whether or not they HIT, whether or not the fortification blocks that shot, is a different discussion from the OP.

The goblin can not shoot the dwarf, unless the goblin is an elite marksman,  because the goblin is not right next to the fortification. 

Wrong again. The goblin can shoot at the dwarf, and can successfully shoot the dwarf if they get lucky.  A fortification is never a "wall", never a perfect defense - there is always a non-zero chance for the shot to hit.

I am sorry for necroing this thread but your testimony did not line up with my recollection so I stayed quiet and sought to reproduce the circumstances which I have now done.  My apologies for taking so long.

It was my observation that dwarfs standing behind fortifications in fortress mode are simply not fired upon by the regular bow/crossbow goblins while those marked as elite bow/crossbow goblins fire on dwarfs behind fortifications with seeming impunity, though they don't seem to be as accurate as normal.  I have just seen this phenomena reoccur.

I will attempt to get a video of it(yay savescumming).  If you have observed different behavior then we may have a bug or at least there is more to this story than our current understanding.

EDIT: Crappy movie link....
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1547-fortificationtest

[Ranzear]

A bit of a related question, but how does one keep their marksdwarves adjacent to a fortification to utilize them anyway? Any time I station a squad (I always squad for faster alert statuses and rotations) immediately next to a row of fortifications, the squad leader will stand exactly on that spot but his followers will mill about or even go entirely around the fort and stand outside of it. Patrolling just inside the fortification has the same effect, the rest of the squad just mills around the leader instead of positioning correctly or even intelligently.

I guess I just have to break the squad to individuals and station them all precisely. Is there any hope for the upcoming enormous squad update to be able to assign a station as a zone instead of a point?

[PencilinHand]

A bit of a related question, but how does one keep their marksdwarves adjacent to a fortification to utilize them anyway? Any time I station a squad (I always squad for faster alert statuses and rotations) immediately next to a row of fortifications, the squad leader will stand exactly on that spot but his followers will mill about or even go entirely around the fort and stand outside of it. Patrolling just inside the fortification has the same effect, the rest of the squad just mills around the leader instead of positioning correctly or even intelligently.

I guess I just have to break the squad to individuals and station them all precisely. Is there any hope for the upcoming enormous squad update to be able to assign a station as a zone instead of a point?

Currently, a squad with more than one member isn't guaranteed to try and go exactly where you want.  There is an article on the wiki that mentions squad control.  If you are trying to position marksdwarfs somewhere I would also turn off chase opponent.  Otherwise, Dwarfs tend to run after the enemy they are shooting at once they go though the stack of bolts they are carrying(mine do anyway).

The "soon to be" update involves a lot of squad controls, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a work around or some way of simplified control.  Formations are being implemented but I don't know what exactly that entails.  Borrows might get the job done in the next update as well, but again I don't know what exactly that entails.