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Author Topic: ocean forts beware!  (Read 3288 times)

puke

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ocean forts beware!
« on: July 02, 2009, 04:10:36 pm »

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Byakugan01

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2009, 05:34:02 pm »

That is so incredibly stupid...tuna are a predatory fish. In order to feed them, you would need to increase the harvest of the smaller fish at the bottom of the food chain in order to have enough food to feed the things. It's basically akin to the idea of having a tiger farm-or a farm of any other apex predator-in terms of efficiency. Sardines and the like are already fished pretty heavily, both for food, oil and whatnot (as well as food for farmed salmon). We really don't need this, and quite frankly it's a waste of natural resources. 
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From Mr. Welch's 1350 things he is not allowed to do in a RPG:
148. There is no Gnomish Deathgrip, and even if there was, it wouldn't involve tongs.
171. My character's dying words are not allowed to be "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur"
218. No matter my alignment, organizing halfling pit fights is a violation.
231. I am not allowed to do anything that would make a Sith Lord cry.
240. Any character with more than three skills specializing in chainsaw is vetoed.

Chicostick

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2009, 05:41:39 pm »

Well Japan is the country that insists on killing large numbers of whales each year for "research." The only research they do is on how a particular whale tastes.

I'm not surprised they're trying to some up with some hare-brained idea to make "super tuna." Within a few years they'll have fished tuna to extinction anyway...

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Byakugan01

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2009, 05:59:12 pm »

Don't forget the shark fin trade (another excellent example of an unsustainable harvest, and one that quite frankly is very wasteful). You know what the ironic thing is about the whales they butcher? That meat really isn't the most healthful thing to eat. What with the long lives baleen whales can live, they end up accumulating ALOT of PCBs, mercury etc in their flesh-especially as most of the stuff that bioaccumulates is fat soluble, and whales have alot of blubber on them. I don't even think it was a major part of their diet until the post-WWII occupation, if I remember correctly*.

 The worst thing about this is that there are plenty of herbivorous fish-such as carp, catfish (more of omnivores, but can be raised on plant matter), tilapia, and other such fish (Personally, I've had carp meat as well as tilapia, and both are quite good). Even better is that these fish don't get to accumulate as much mercury and other contaminants since they feed on the very bottom rung of the food chain-that is, plants. A predatory fish like tuna, salmon, swordfish etc can accumulate alot of the stuff, however, since they absorb the mercury/etc. from their prey-and if the prey they eat is itself a predator of other fish, then they take up even *more* mercury, since they take in the mercury that the predatory fish got from its prey. Add in the fact that you need alot of fish to get one of these large predators to marketable or full size, and it becomes even less healthy. To top it off, since these fish are active predators and put quite a bit of energy into movement, they produce far less meat per pound/kilogram/etc of food consumed than the herbivorous fish. 

*That being said, there were villages which practiced whaling, but that is more of an exception than the rule.
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From Mr. Welch's 1350 things he is not allowed to do in a RPG:
148. There is no Gnomish Deathgrip, and even if there was, it wouldn't involve tongs.
171. My character's dying words are not allowed to be "Hastur, Hastur, Hastur"
218. No matter my alignment, organizing halfling pit fights is a violation.
231. I am not allowed to do anything that would make a Sith Lord cry.
240. Any character with more than three skills specializing in chainsaw is vetoed.

Organ

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009, 05:20:03 am »

Well that's quite a well reasoned argument, I don't know if you'll find much disagreement here. That said, well reasoned arguments never got anyone off their ass. I believe a new gm breed of super tuna will be the perfect opportunity for fear mongering--all we need is to make [SIZE:20] and [PREFSTRING:holy fuck]. And take off [IMMOBILE_LAND] for good measure.
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The fight in the dog in your what?

puke

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 10:50:45 pm »

Well that's quite a well reasoned argument, I don't know if you'll find much disagreement here. That said, well reasoned arguments never got anyone off their ass. I believe a new gm breed of super tuna will be the perfect opportunity for fear mongering--all we need is to make [SIZE:20] and [PREFSTRING:holy fuck]. And take off [IMMOBILE_LAND] for good measure.

say what now?  urist likes super tuna for their holy fuck?

??
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Shoku

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 06:07:50 pm »

Japan needs to realized that they are almost as bad at admitting and breaking bad habits as America, and if that phrase translates well that might be the most effective way to explain it.
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blah28722

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2009, 08:43:18 pm »

Don't forget the shark fin trade (another excellent example of an unsustainable harvest, and one that quite frankly is very wasteful). You know what the ironic thing is about the whales they butcher? That meat really isn't the most healthful thing to eat. What with the long lives baleen whales can live, they end up accumulating ALOT of PCBs, mercury etc in their flesh-especially as most of the stuff that bioaccumulates is fat soluble, and whales have alot of blubber on them. I don't even think it was a major part of their diet until the post-WWII occupation, if I remember correctly*.

But shark fin soup is delicious!

Whale has been a part of the japanese diet for quite some time. It reached a peak during WW2. Due to the rationing of food by the government, whales were used as a food supply. For a short time, whale meat was a common thing. Demands for whale meat dropped sharply after rationing ended and the "save the whales" thing began.

Also, the fish you've listed as examples are freshwater fish. A few problems with that. First of all, freshwater fish cannot be eaten raw due to the risk of parasitic worms. Secondly, Japan, as a relatively tiny country with a massive demand for fish, isn't capable of an inland fish farming industry that could support itself. As a result, the Japanese have to seek fish from the ocean.


I still agree with you though. There's plenty of fish that are easier to farm, like Salmon and Hamachi.
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Eidalac

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2009, 09:59:07 pm »

Japan needs to realized that they are almost as bad at admitting and breaking bad habits as America, and if that phrase translates well that might be the most effective way to explain it.

Much as I love Japan, I have to admit the cultural pressure to conform and not cause problems makes them prone to deny a problem exists than to deal with it.  Speak no evil indeed.
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In the traditional sense of the word?  No, he's been dissolved in magma.

Shoku

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2009, 12:40:46 am »

Japan needs to realized that they are almost as bad at admitting and breaking bad habits as America, and if that phrase translates well that might be the most effective way to explain it.

Much as I love Japan, I have to admit the cultural pressure to conform and not cause problems makes them prone to deny a problem exists than to deal with it.  Speak no evil indeed.
And anyone bringing up a problem comes off as sounding like they are personally insulting all of the people they are talking to and their superiors all the way up to the emperor instead of pointing out that there is an issue they should devote some attention to.
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Im_Sparks

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2009, 01:07:37 am »

The way of thinking there is very linear culturally and socially. I have to admit it's not a quarter as bad as China, though

Lowest to highest freedoms in south-eastern Asia in my opinion are as follows;
North Korea
China
Tibet(now)
Japan
India
South Korea
Tibet(Pre-domination)
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Well treat me like the disease like the rats and the fleas, A-ha-ha! A-ha-ha!
Well treat me like the sea oh so salty and mean, A-ha-ha! A-ha-ha!
Let's shake hands if you want but soon both hands are gone, A-ha-ha!
Cut me down like a tree like the lumber or weeds, well discard who you please like the leaves off a tree. Drag me out of the sea and then teach me to breath. Give me forced health till I wish death on myself. Ah! Ha! Ha!
March on! March on! March on! March on! MARCH ON!

Deimos56

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2009, 01:47:41 am »

Well that's quite a well reasoned argument, I don't know if you'll find much disagreement here. That said, well reasoned arguments never got anyone off their ass. I believe a new gm breed of super tuna will be the perfect opportunity for fear mongering--all we need is to make [SIZE:20] and [PREFSTRING:holy fuck]. And take off [IMMOBILE_LAND] for good measure.

say what now?  urist likes super tuna for their holy fuck?

??

This thread is going to become inappropriate thanks to you. ::)
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I'm curious what the barely conscious ai wrote about.
Well that went better than expected.  He went nuts and punched a rabbit to death, then the dogs and the whole dining hall ripped him to shreds.

blah28722

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2009, 03:55:18 am »

The way of thinking there is very linear culturally and socially. I have to admit it's not a quarter as bad as China, though

Lowest to highest freedoms in south-eastern Asia in my opinion are as follows;
North Korea
China
Tibet(now)
Japan
India
South Korea
Tibet(Pre-domination)

I'd have to disagree with your list, seeing as how you've lumped political freedom, economical freedom, cultural standards, and strictness of law all into one very vague "freedom".

If by freedom you meant the ability to do however you wish, then rural China, India, and Tibet would be the most free, due to how hard it is to effectively govern large, rural areas.

In terms of economical freedom, that is, the ability to make money without the government taking away your belongings, China, Japan, and North Korea would be in the top. China is much more a one-party republic than a communist state, so it's easier than you think to become wealthy. India suffers from a polarization of classes, where at one end is the super rich elite, but at the other lies a large, impoverished mass who would be hard pressed to move up the social ladder.

I'm not to keen on the specific cultures of each place, but from experience I can say that Tibet (both), India, North Korea, and China all have rather strict cultural standards. You really can't blame them though, it's been passed on through hundreds, if not thousands of years. Many of the times. It's a situation similar to that of the conservative, religious groups in the US. Japan and Korea are fairly liberal compared to the rest.
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Shoku

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2009, 05:01:20 pm »

The way of thinking there is very linear culturally and socially. I have to admit it's not a quarter as bad as China, though

Lowest to highest freedoms in south-eastern Asia in my opinion are as follows;
North Korea
China
Tibet(now)
Japan
India
South Korea
Tibet(Pre-domination)

I'd have to disagree with your list, seeing as how you've lumped political freedom, economical freedom, cultural standards, and strictness of law all into one very vague "freedom".

If by freedom you meant the ability to do however you wish, then rural China, India, and Tibet would be the most free, due to how hard it is to effectively govern large, rural areas.

In terms of economical freedom, that is, the ability to make money without the government taking away your belongings, China, Japan, and North Korea would be in the top. China is much more a one-party republic than a communist state, so it's easier than you think to become wealthy. India suffers from a polarization of classes, where at one end is the super rich elite, but at the other lies a large, impoverished mass who would be hard pressed to move up the social ladder.

I'm not to keen on the specific cultures of each place, but from experience I can say that Tibet (both), India, North Korea, and China all have rather strict cultural standards. You really can't blame them though, it's been passed on through hundreds, if not thousands of years. Many of the times. It's a situation similar to that of the conservative, religious groups in the US. Japan and Korea are fairly liberal compared to the rest.
I'd guess the list is something more like individualism vs groupthink.
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puke

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Re: ocean forts beware!
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2009, 05:37:45 pm »

This thread is going to become inappropriate thanks to you. ::)

really?  for profanity?  not thanks to the people who are value-ranking forign cultures from lowest to highest? 

shucks.
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