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[Lymojo]

So I've recently become rather obsessed with this new idea for a fortress.

I've never had any desire for above-ground constructions; none of them feel particularly "dwarfy", and I'm kind of repelled by the idea of drastically altering the appearance of the landscape. That said, I'm sick of the standard anthill tunnel system that most fortresses incorporate.

What I want to do is dig out an enormous hollow cavern underground, leaving behind huge stalagtites and stalagmites, inside of which I will build rooms for my industry and stockpiles. All of my farming and tower cap orchards will be placed on the "ground level" of the cavern, simulating gardens and arboretums in a real-life metropolis.

Ideally I'll plan it right so that there are no constructions; although I want to leave the outside of these stalagtite/mite towers rough, ideally everything will be smoothed and engraved on the interiors.

My goal is essentially to create a unique, delightfully asymmetric community with a very organic, lived-in feel, with a Hayao Miyazaki design aesthetic.
When it's complete I will take screenshots with 3dwarf and then do some swell (I hope) digital paintovers which I will post.

Obviously, I will be placing a strong emphasis on the aesthetics of the fort, rather than on efficiency or productivity. That said, I wanted to ask all of you for advice and input as to how I should organize my community. Should there be one stalagtite for each kind of industry? What's the ideal location for the main dining hall? Are there any neat features or interesting mega-constructions that I could add in to make it cooler?

I've come up with a few of my own, beyond what I've already described, but I'll wait to hear from you guys before I talk about them.

Also, I'd like to know if you guys think I should embark on this now, or wait until the next update. There's a LOT of earth to mine out, so it's going to take awhile.

[Jim Groovester]

I recommend designating the whole cavern out first, and then planning out the fortress once that's done. If you want it to look natural, then you plan around what's 'already there', so to speak, and then plop down things based on what you've got.

That doesn't mean you can't make the 'natural' formations friendly to fortresses.

I do remember this one fort I saw on the DFMA. It was basically your idea, except there were buildings that rose from the cavern floor, as if the dwarves had built them there, though they were carved out of the rock. I thought it looked pretty neat, like the dwarves had settled in a cavern instead of digging out their own.

As for cool things to have, I recommend an extensive cave river network. And an extensive magma river network beneath that. Think about cool things you would find if you were adventuring deep underground in D&D, and build those features. Like creepy temples, dungeons, unspeakable horrors, temples to the unspeakable horrors, and what have you.

[Derakon]

I see two possible approaches.

One involves making "apartment complex" stalagmites which are dedicated to housing, and then other stalagmites that are dedicated to specific industries (e.g. the farm processing, distilling, and cooking stalagmite; the forging stalagmite; the butchery stalagmite).

The other would be to make each stalagmite an individual family's home and business center, with the necessary workshops for that family to operate, their bedrooms, and whatever else seems appropriate.

I also recommend having small "features" on the ground level, like artificial streams, a park, a fountain, and so on. You're going to have a lot of surface area with no particular purpose; best to find something artistic to do with it.

Set up some drippers that slowly leak water from the top of the cavern, to simulate rain, maybe?

[Stargrasper]

So I've recently become rather obsessed with this new idea for a fortress.

I've never had any desire for above-ground constructions; none of them feel particularly "dwarfy", and I'm kind of repelled by the idea of drastically altering the appearance of the landscape. That said, I'm sick of the standard anthill tunnel system that most fortresses incorporate.

What I want to do is dig out an enormous hollow cavern underground, leaving behind huge stalagtites and stalagmites, inside of which I will build rooms for my industry and stockpiles. All of my farming and tower cap orchards will be placed on the "ground level" of the cavern, simulating gardens and arboretums in a real-life metropolis.

Ideally I'll plan it right so that there are no constructions; although I want to leave the outside of these stalagtite/mite towers rough, ideally everything will be smoothed and engraved on the interiors.

My goal is essentially to create a unique, delightfully asymmetric community with a very organic, lived-in feel, with a Hayao Miyazaki design aesthetic.
When it's complete I will take screenshots with 3dwarf and then do some swell (I hope) digital paintovers which I will post.

Obviously, I will be placing a strong emphasis on the aesthetics of the fort, rather than on efficiency or productivity. That said, I wanted to ask all of you for advice and input as to how I should organize my community. Should there be one stalagtite for each kind of industry? What's the ideal location for the main dining hall? Are there any neat features or interesting mega-constructions that I could add in to make it cooler?

I've come up with a few of my own, beyond what I've already described, but I'll wait to hear from you guys before I talk about them.

Also, I'd like to know if you guys think I should embark on this now, or wait until the next update. There's a LOT of earth to mine out, so it's going to take awhile.

Go ahead and embark now.  Toady's working quickly but has so much to do for the next major update that it's going to take quite a long time to get the update out.

Create a column(stalactite connected to stalactite) for the main dining hall right in the center for ease of access and the like.  It can serve as a nice central nexus area for your cavern.  Consider where you'll put your trade depot also.

Smoothing stuff...remember it smooths both sides of the rock.  Could make some smoothing/engraving complicated for you.

For your crop fields, as long as the bottom is soil or irrigated, you're fine.  I don't think you can create unnatural towercap farms.  ie, you need an existing underground river/pool(ideally river in your case) to grow towercaps.

Stalactites and stalagmites are cool and all..but don't forget a column here and there.  They'll be great for function...large sets of stairs to connect the top and bottom of your cavern.

Be very careful digging this out.  It'll be REALLY easy to screw over dwarves with channeling and digging.  I forsee collapses(unintentional deadly ones).  Good luck.

I don't have any particular suggestions or advice beyond what I've said, but I do hope my comments are helpful to your endeavor.  I'll be sure to come back to this thread after I think of suggestions/advice for you.  Good luck and I'll be back to talk about this project.  It sounds fun.

[Lymojo]

<Moved topic to Dwarf Mode Discussion, as was initially intended>

[Argonnek]

How would you be connected to the outside world? I imagine it as the Depot being on top of the tallest column connected to a tunnel to the surface by a bridge. Also, would your dwarves walk along on the ground floor to get between stalactite/stalagmite/column, or use raised walkways?

[Stargrasper]

How would you be connected to the outside world? I imagine it as the Depot being on top of the tallest column connected to a tunnel to the surface by a bridge. Also, would your dwarves walk along on the ground floor to get between stalactite/stalagmite/column, or use raised walkways?

Like I said before, the depot is an interesting question...probably on or near the surface is the best place...remember, wagons can only cross z-levels by using ramps and they needs a three(3) tile wide space to move.

I'm going to go ahead and say moving around will be on the floor level AND in tunnels above the ceiling.  You need those ceiling tunnels so you can get into the stalactites and columns are a good way to get between floor and ceiling.  Said ceiling tunnels can also connect to wherever the depot is and ultimately, the surface.  Floor movement is also important, though, for moving between columns, stalagmites, and whatever is on the ground level(farms, whatever).

[Jim Groovester]

Well, let's say he makes it big. Really big, as in, covering a significant portion of the entire embark site, and digging out several z-levels. In that case, a bridge between cave columns wouldn't be inappropriate, and would be an interesting feature to put in. Or maybe have it hang from the cavern cieling as the only entrance to the outside. And pretend it sways in seasonal cavern breezes. Or whatever.

And the depot should be strategically placed to give the traders a good idea of the size and grandeur of the place, and a three tile pathway deep underground is easy to provide when you think big. Like I hope he's doing.

Besides, it's easier to get the wagons to where you want them than it is the thousands of goods to the caravan.

[eerr]

Sounds like the only problem is one of design?

symmetry vs natural...

big vs small...

how to destroy 50k leftover stone.

ect

[Gergination]

Sounds like the only problem is one of design?

symmetry vs natural...

big vs small...

how to destroy 50k leftover stone.

ect

I've only mined out 3-z levels in my map and I have 200k...

[ThtblovesDF]

A fun way (not the most effective though) to get ride of stone is to fire it towards the next magma pipe and build a wall there so they hit the wall and fall in. Works over all z levels higher then the pipe.

I wish water would (very slowly) erode stone or at least make it smaller/move it) No more 1 wall big damms that can stop 3 z levels of water (for aeons).

[Lymojo]

How would you be connected to the outside world? I imagine it as the Depot being on top of the tallest column connected to a tunnel to the surface by a bridge. Also, would your dwarves walk along on the ground floor to get between stalactite/stalagmite/column, or use raised walkways?

Like I said before, the depot is an interesting question...probably on or near the surface is the best place...remember, wagons can only cross z-levels by using ramps and they needs a three(3) tile wide space to move.

I'm going to go ahead and say moving around will be on the floor level AND in tunnels above the ceiling.  You need those ceiling tunnels so you can get into the stalactites and columns are a good way to get between floor and ceiling.  Said ceiling tunnels can also connect to wherever the depot is and ultimately, the surface.  Floor movement is also important, though, for moving between columns, stalagmites, and whatever is on the ground level(farms, whatever).

I'm thinking that the trade Depot will actually be on the ground level (when I refer to the ground level, I mean the bottom of the cavern, probably somewhere around +3 from the bottom of the map). I want visitors to the fort to appreciate the grandure of the design. The entrance to the fort will be a large 5-tile ramp that traverses back and forth all the way from the entrance at the surface. The whole thing will be open, so that as they make the trip down to the Depot they can look out and see the entire town spread out below them.
I suppose I'll have to have some alternate meat-grinder type entrance for invaders somewhere else.

As for walking, I will certainly take your suggestion and have tunnels in the top layers. Rather than basment tunnels, however, the ground floor will be filled with walkways (pretty towercap-lined ones), with doors at the base of each stalagmite. Additionally, I probably will build some elevated walkways connecting each stalag structure somewhere in the mid-z levels. These will be constructions, not carved, in order to go along with the whole "found cavern" feel.

Some other ideas I have:
Perhaps the entrance to the cavern will be inaccessible except for crossing over a drawbridge spanning the surface-exposed magma pipe. If I do this then the caravan route I describe earlier will circle around the pipe on its way down to the bottom floor, like a giant spiral staircase.

Otherwise I might just use scaffolding to smooth and engrave the pipe, or dare some kind of magmafall.

One or more of the stalagmites will be dedicated to metalworking, and the channels that feed magma to them will be exposed to passersby on the ground floor, with steel bridges built over them. Magma monsters don't respawn, right?

I've decided that the main dining hall will be located one level below the ground floor. The entrance will be a lavish gazebo type thing, probably in the town center, on the ground floor with stairs leading down. Statues and mist generators in there for sure.
The dining hall itself will ideally have clear glass walls, with the magma canals visible through one side and the water canals visible through the other.

I think I'll build the dining hall "restaurant-style", rather than "cafeteria style". Booths, private rooms, and clumps of four tables spread around. Conventional wisdom states that dwarves need a mile-long table, but they never seem to throw banquets, do they? I think I've been misreading them; I think they want intimate seating.

Catacombs and burial grounds in a labyrinth in the bottommost levels.

What should I do with the HFS chamber?

Hang on, I saw some people posted while I was writing this, I'll respond in the next post.

EDIT: Added a quote for clarity.

[Jim Groovester]

What should I do with the HFS chamber?

Dig it out without breaking into it. Don't dig out the adamantine, so that it looks like it's hanging. Build a creepy ancient sealed temple around it. That's what I'm planning in one of my forts.

Anyways, this has made me excited. Keep us posted on your progress. I know it will take ages to dig out, because I'm digging out a cave river system underneath my map and I'm in my ninth year and still working.

[Lymojo]

How would you be connected to the outside world? I imagine it as the Depot being on top of the tallest column connected to a tunnel to the surface by a bridge. Also, would your dwarves walk along on the ground floor to get between stalactite/stalagmite/column, or use raised walkways?

Actually, now that I think about this - and the other quote about imagining this as a swaying bridge - it sounds pretty compelling. I might have to consider this instead of my originally planned long traverse to the bottom.

Damn, I'll have to think about this.

My only concern is that ultimately I want this to be a pretty welcoming place. Having the depot on top of a pedestal cut off from the hustle bustle of the fort, and surrounded by sheer cliffs, seems like it might be kind of intimidating.

[Atlas]

I did something like this cavern, but without the stalagmites, it took AGES to dig, because of the pathfinding generated from asking dwarves to dig thousands of squares at once...