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[assimilateur]

I'm new to the game as well as the forums, and I must say that DF is absolutely fascinating. The depth of this game is unlike anything I have ever seen.


That said, allow me to get to the point. As my subject line suggests, I'd like to propose the option of not having civilians run away from threats. In the few games I have so far played I've seen even my armed dwarfs like lumberjacks and miners flee at the mere sight of a kobold.

My suggestion boils down to adding an option to the "orders and options" menu that would enable all civilians to arm themselves and to stand their ground whenever confronted. They would still be different from drafted dwarfs since they wouldn't train combat and they wouldn't go out on patrols.

[tigrex]

I like this suggestion.  It would be nice for many reasons.

Dwarves that are allowed to bear weapons will get a good thought from claiming one.  They might practice sparring during their off duty time, but much less than a professional dwarf would.

When attacked directly, a dwarf would fight back, but other dwarves could not be ordered to rush in to help out, and very few would do so. 

It would mean a nice weapon industry would form to give every single dwarf a good weapon. 

Dwarf children and babies carrying weapons too!  What would make a parent more proud than to see little Urist swing his first warhammer and squish a kobold thief?

Dwarfs can choose not to bear arms if they are 'pacifists'. 

Farmers/growers can wield scythes and pitchforks as emergency and effective weapons.  Masons have hammers, fish cleaners knives, etc.

Would armour be acceptable?  Say, a leather cuirass to be worn by all dwarves that work outside.

And finally, dwarves that may bear arms but don't have a weapon wrestle instead.

I hope these suggestions are helpful.  Welcome to the game and to the forums, assimilateur.  (BTW, you can draft dwarves at any time.  So if goblins attack and a lumberjack is in the vicinity, turn him into an axedwarf and watch as he makes goblins bleed)

[DarkSim]

I think that rather than having dwarves with the right to bear arms, it would be far more dwarvenly if they all had the right to arm bears. Now that would be a solution to nearly anything

[assimilateur]

Welcome to the game and to the forums, assimilateur. 

Thank you.

BTW, you can draft dwarves at any time.

I'm aware of this. It just sort of goes against my beliefs that I should be the one to tell my them to defend themselves. And philosophical (if you can call it that) reasons aside, it's not very practical either. You should be able to specify something akin to rules of engagement, where you'd either allow everyone to stand their ground (in this case unarmed dwarfs would help themselves to any weapons they find available), or just the military (same as it is now).

(...) it would be far more dwarvenly if they all had the right to arm bears.

That's exactly my idea. I mean, technically you're not specifically disallowing ownership of arms either, it's just that civilians don't carry any weapons unless the weapon is needed for their occupation. So I guess that what I'm really saying is that civilians should be ordered - via options and orders - to defend themselves instead of flee.

[Vattic]

This is a good suggestion, it would be nice if dwarves could store weapons on their person without having to hold them, this way arming a dwarf wont cause problems with having no free hands or similar.

Fleeing at the sight of Kobolds is one thing but fleeing from Groundhogs is even more ridiculous, I'd like to see dwarves perform some simple danger assessment when faced with a possible opponent, when I'm out walking in the park and I see a squirrel I don't panic and cancel my plans but if it runs up to be and bites me I'd probably respond differently. Dwarves shouldn't run from things unless they are under attack, cant take them and have a route of escape. So a cornered dwarf will fight even if they are fighting a greater foe.

I like the idea of dwarves wielding the tools of their trade where appropriate, imagine the riots with pitchforks and all, but currently few dwarves use tools and I don't know if that will change.

In dangerous places it would be nice if dwarves realised this and wore armour, a bit like how cold weather should make them wear warm clothing.

[Derakon]

This has been suggested before, as has making civilians armor themselves. The way dwarves react to threats is rather crude as it stands and will surely be reworked in the future.

[Funk]

set them to the hunting labor on then tell them which weapons to use.
thay still run a away but can be draftd to fight monsters if thay get scaerd.
the down side is that if any Animals on the map will be hunted by every one.

[chucks]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php

72. (5)     Civilian weapons

Cast your vote, please.  Remember that you only get to cast votes for your top 3 choices.

[Retales]

I've been having this idea of regular dwarves carrying knives/daggers around. I think it'd make sense, because a knife or a dagger can also be used as an all-around tool. And if the need arises, the dwarves can use it to defend themselves.

Just a thought.

[Silverionmox]

For now, I make them all woodcutters, so they carry an axe - helps against cave adaptation too. But they'll still trip over it when running away from a kobold kid. Which wouldn't look as stupid as it does if they didn't run away from the entrance of the fortress, into other enemies.

[assimilateur]

http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php

72. (5)     Civilian weapons

Cast your vote, please.  Remember that you only get to cast votes for your top 3 choices.

Damn, I've already voted without having seen that suggestion. Anyway, I don't completely agree with that suggestion, seeing how it is about "small weapons" and I was talking about any weapon being usable by civilians and then not being issued per se, but freely chosen by the dwarf in question.

Of course I agree that giving them "small" weapons would be better than nothing.

[LordDemon]

It might give more use to swords. Atleast for me the military is always armed with axes, hammers or crossbows. Civilians carrying and using shortsword might be a good idea.

While we are at it, a scabbard being made from leather might be a good idea to implement the civilians carrying a sword and having free hands.

[assimilateur]

While we are at it, a scabbard being made from leather might be a good idea to implement the civilians carrying a sword and having free hands.

Brilliant! I second this motion.

[Jakkarra]

(...) it would be far more dwarvenly if they all had the right to arm bears.

That's exactly my idea. I mean, technically you're not specifically disallowing ownership of arms either, it's just that civilians don't carry any weapons unless the weapon is needed for their occupation. So I guess that what I'm really saying is that civilians should be ordered - via options and orders - to defend themselves instead of flee.

i believe he was making a joke.

i want my warbears! with booze-bombs attatched!

RAWR!

KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

love, jakkarra

[chucks]

I would actually enjoy seeing the use of items that contain other items used in such a manner.


You have a dwarf wearing the following clothing:

- cave spider silk loincloth
- pig tail tunic
- pig tail pants
- goat leather belt
- whip vine socks
- cow leather high boots
- horse leather gloves
- leather jerkin, possible metal studded or ring sewn
- a quiver of arrows, attached to the belt
- a coinpurse, attached to the belt
- a short sword, in a sheath, attached to the belt, slung over the dorf's rear thigh to keep it out of the way of tasks
- a small dagger, in a sheath, in a boot
- a small dwarven toolbelt, complete with the basic tools to general get most dwarvenly jobs done (including a fork & spoon & corkscrew!), but lacking niche tools or large, heavy tools
- a goat leather knapsack worn accross the shoulders and maybe clipping to the belt
- a mug, attached to the belt or the knapsack
- a coil of rope, attached to a loop on the backpack
- a pick, attached to a loop on the backpack
- a crossbow, attached to a loop on the backpack or slung around a shoulder
- some rations, job related tools, books, papers, pens & pencils, various items, a diary, who knows!
- a waterskin hung around the neck or a flask in a pocket somewhere

This dwarf wouldn't be a combat machine, but he could handle his own in the wild with a kobold or a wild boar somewhere.  He could easily be a woodcuter or hunter as much as a miner.  He would need to take alert and become more alarmed when perceiving an opposing military force of sufficent strength, and flee to within the confines of the fortress.

All dwarfs should have a continuum of alarmedness, where peasants would run at the first sight of trouble and champions would need to come up against extremely strong, mythical beasts or huge numbers of invaders to become alarms.  Military units as a band could have a tie in to morale, where seeing a large number of comrades or even just their commander struck down would cause a mass panic and retreat.  Perhaps champions could be given a bad thought about cowardly fleeing in the heat of an epic and glorious battle?  Perhaps the only thing to erase that type of bad thought would to be military conquest and successful fortress defense!

The difficult part of this would be situation assessment for dwarfs, and they really only should be able to figure in factors that they could perceive or easily deduce in quick environmental observation.  Something like, "Oh, I see single kobold in my sphere of perception, let's go chase him off or strike him down."  or, "Hmm, I sure would like to hunt me some rabbit, but discover a lone goblin wrestler.  Time to test the mettle of my construction in a interesting battle." or, "Oh, this goblin had two buddies over the hill, and they are close or getting closer.  Plus, he's kinda beating up on me some.  I think I need to start making it for indoors!"

This sort of action could also be a system for job selection.  Each frame could make a nearby situation assessment round, and various perceived events or collections of perceived events could trigger actions in dorfs nearby with certain jobs enabled or orders made to occur.  You see a workshop with an item to be hauled out.  You haul it out to a stockpile.  This could prevent jobs from hopping to a dwarf 2 floors up and 30 tiles out from getting a job when a dwarf just 5 tiles away could perform the task.