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[pokute]

This thread makes my head hurt.

I guess it's no wonder since most people sleep through laws and ethics classes.

[Akroma]

keep in mind

after many months (or was it years ?) of trial, all posible arguements have been voiced, in all varieties

and they have been found guilty of breaking a law


it's not like in the cases were people get convicted for a crime they didn't commit because the police actually got the wrong person

the persons were the right ones, the only question was; did they break a law

and appearantly, they did

period

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

I really don't think Yanlin understands the underlying bittorrent technology.

Let's say you start a booksharing forum where people post and discuss what interesting books they have in their OWN homes. People then start using that information to borrow books from each other and photocopying them.  Should you be arrested, thrown in jail, and given a fine you couldn't possibly pay back in your life time?

Um, yes, because that is illegal.  You cannot photocopy copyrighted material without permission.

[Antioch]

I really don't think Yanlin understands the underlying bittorrent technology.

Let's say you start a booksharing forum where people post and discuss what interesting books they have in their OWN homes. People then start using that information to borrow books from each other and photocopying them.  Should you be arrested, thrown in jail, and given a fine you couldn't possibly pay back in your life time?

Um, yes, because that is illegal.  You cannot photocopy copyrighted material without permission.

yes but that is NOT WHAT YOU ARE DOING, it is what your members are doing

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

I really don't think Yanlin understands the underlying bittorrent technology.

Let's say you start a booksharing forum where people post and discuss what interesting books they have in their OWN homes. People then start using that information to borrow books from each other and photocopying them.  Should you be arrested, thrown in jail, and given a fine you couldn't possibly pay back in your life time?

Um, yes, because that is illegal.  You cannot photocopy copyrighted material without permission.

yes but that is NOT WHAT YOU ARE DOING, it is what your members are doing

any you are knowingly facilitating a crime, which makes you guilty of the crime.

@Yanlin:  My apologies.  I was wrong to make light of your beliefs.

[Antioch]

so Google should be sued because it knowingly facilitates finding illegal content on the internet?

[Okenido]

I've always hated google...

[Rilder]

If I open a free brothel, it's the customers that should get arrested and not me?

A free bothel you mean the prostitutes have sex for free?

I doubt its illegal to sell your body for free?

[Gorjo MacGrymm]

Actually , Google is quite proactive at trying to prevent illegal activities through its website.  But its different to be providing a place for crime, versus telling people where the place is.

This is a silly argument.  The laws are quite clear.  That is why they were prosecuted.  That is why napster was prosecuted.

[Yanlin]

Sigh. Fine. Here's a FANCY metaphor.

Considering Pirate bay is named as such and has made no measures to remove illegal content posted by their users or remove said users, they are promoting it. That is illegal. CASE CLOSED.

It's copyright violation. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.

Say I open a video game library where people that make freeware games publish them. The games are copyrighted under the GNU license. This is legal.

Then say some guys steal a lesser known commercial game and fool me into publishing it. Once I discover their crime, I will ban them and never distribute the game again.

However, my competitor, Pirate Library, continued to publish and distribute these games. Not only that, they took no legal measures and have been avoiding the law all this time. With fancy lawyerwork and loopholes. Not to mention gray laws and such.

Now, considering millions of people use Pirate Library every month, if not more, the police can't logically assume they're all willingly guilty. Ignorance of the law does not grant innocence. But it does grant innocence when fraud is committed. Pirate Library is committing a fraud by distributing it in a legal fashion, thus making it "legal".

Now, the only thing you can do is sue Pirate Library and have the police arrest them.

Does THIS metaphor make sense to you?

Actually , Google is quite proactive at trying to prevent illegal activities through its website.  But its different to be providing a place for crime, versus telling people where the place is.

This is a silly argument.  The laws are quite clear.  That is why they were prosecuted.  That is why napster was prosecuted.

Thanks. If I ask somebody where I can buy some drugs, he cannot get arrested for providing me the drugs.

[olemars]

keep in mind

after many months (or was it years ?) of trial, all posible arguements have been voiced, in all varieties

The trial only lasted a couple of weeks. Much of the time was spent listening to various "expert witnesses" presenting diametrically opposite views on various aspects of file sharing.

This is a silly argument.  The laws are quite clear.  That is why they were prosecuted.  That is why napster was prosecuted.

Which laws? Copyright and pirate-copying laws vary from country to country. In this case it's swedish law, which has been somewhat in a state of flux on this matter the last few years. This case is considered important because it sets precedent.

Now, I don't really defend these four guys as they're really just jackasses and knew full well what they were doing, but I do fear the precedent. The music and movie industry is trying to get through some very nasty pieces of legislation in various countries, including one where they could get you banned from the internet altogether for downloading (might pass in france this year). They're going to use the pirate bay conviction for all it's worth to get this through.

[inaluct]

If I ever get stricken by a melancholy, I'll go over to Beverly Hills and murder some rich people. Nearly every fucking problem in our society is their fault.

[Mel_Vixen]

I for once think that TPB did nothing wrong and that the sentences were to high. The content-industries lose almost nothing by this copyers (it doesnt feel like "stealing" or "Pirating") especally because this happens only for personal usage and not to resell the copyed stuff. The most of these copyers wouldnt even buy the stuff the copy because its too expensiv for them.

A Culture-flatrate/tax would be the best solution in my oppinion and would us bring back some advantages from the times were no content-industries were around. For example it would be far easyer to get some information for shool/teaching and even the poor can be involved in the cultural-socialisation. Also the artists, writters and Musicans, mostly could get paid directly and they wouldnt have to give 95% of theyr earning to the Content-industries.
This industries can anyway survive if they would think of some new models. "RedHat" (linux distributer) earnes for example money by doing paid support.

Apart from that: Yeah TPB was only connecting torrents-uploaders and downloaders. The sheer mass of the fiels on the other hand isnt controllable by a person. Its like if you wanted to give every drop in the river a number or a Phone-company which would have to Beep out every swearword while you talk with your friends.

[Rilder]

Pretty sure this trial was only the first level, TPB team is appealing to the next level which will give them a more fair trial.

[Ampersand]

Oh boy, the Pirate Bay Trial. If you thought the religion topics were going to get nasty, I can hardly wait to see where this goes.