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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[ToonyMan]

I'm thinkin' 9.

[JanusTwoface]

900?

[ToonyMan]

...

No, I won't.

[webadict]

900?

It's over 9000!

[Pandarsenic]

Wow, that's like at least 100 roles.

[Alexhans]

hey... something else I didn't like about last games...

Flavour musn't give that much information in my opinion.

Or at least, it must be added in the rules so we know what type of information means what.  I had to ask meph if I would know who had attacked me or not if I was a townie (as a dopp, I could not be attacked by other dopps).

Too much flavour information can work wonders to know exactly what happened closing the amount of possibilities for scum.

Exterminators operator was a wonderful addition for the balance of the game.  Now the exterminator actually has a chance to win the game (Provided that dopps don't screw him over like we did )

[Mephansteras]

Meph.... would you be mad if I call for an MC right from the get go in the next game?

I maintain that the game is breakable if you do so...

what's the current normal-townie-or-common-dopp vs PR rate?

That might be a bit annoying, but I don't know that I'd stop it. Hmm...we could go with webadict's suggestion, and allow for 2 of each role on each side. That would make MC much less powerful, since you wouldn't be able to find dopp-townie pairs as easily.

Pretty variable. Depends a lot on how many normal dopps the program decides to start with and how powerful the PRs are that it gives people. Usually somewhere between 1-3 townies and 1 or 2 normal dopps, though.

I'm going to be messing with my program today to deal with the new role situations though, so I might tweak that a bit. We'll see.

and I take it that since players that are abducted in this fashion are still able to get back into the game (since if the scientist dies, the players are released), a player that is abducted won't have their role and alignment won't be revealed, is that right?

Also, where would he go in the priority schema? At the same time as the dopp seeker or at the same time as a regular nightkill?

I kinda like this, as it also makes it tough for a survivor alien to claim, since if a scientist is around, then he can just snatch him up without worry.

Correct, Race/Role will not be revealed for abducted players until the Scientist leaves or a Plasma bomb takes them all out.

Since it's an abduction, it'll go with the dopp seeker's abduction.

[Mephansteras]

hey... something else I didn't like about last games...

Flavour musn't give that much information in my opinion.

Or at least, it must be added in the rules so we know what type of information means what.  I had to ask meph if I would know who had attacked me or not if I was a townie (as a dopp, I could not be attacked by other dopps).

Too much flavour information can work wonders to know exactly what happened closing the amount of possibilities for scum.

What Flavour did you think gave too much away? I've tried to keep things so that you can tell what kind of scum is out there without giving any clues as to who the scum is. Did I give away too much at some point?

[Mephansteras]

Current Role inclusion Votes:

Spoilered for size.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

----------
Advanced Doppelganger
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     
      Y) Should be costly
----------
Agent
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Aggressive Vet
    Y: 10
    N: 0
      Y) Change name to Vigilante
      Y) Rename to vigilante
     
----------
Alien Agent Seeker
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     
----------
Alien Doppelganger Hunter
    Y: 9
    N: 1
     
----------
Alien Exterminator
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Alien Operative
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Alien Scientist
    Y: 6
    N: 4
     
      Y) If he receives two items like an exterminator
      N) "Kidnapper role might be neat, though"
----------
Alien Survivor
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Bodyguard
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     
      N) Use one of the varients
----------
Bodyguard Varients
    Y: 6
    N: 3
     
      Y) Pick one
      Y ) if random
----------
Child
    Y: 0
    N: 10
     
----------
Controlled Doppelganger
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     
      Y) If the EA can't have this and an operative.
----------
Cult Leader
    Y: 6
    N: 4
      Y)  (Only if the game is 'large enough' to support yet another team)
     
----------
Cultist
    Y: 6
    N: 4
      Y)  (Only if the game is 'large enough' to support yet another team)
     
----------
Detective
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Disciple Of Truth
    Y: 8
    N: 2
      Y) Should only role-flip role not role and race. ( -Meph's note: Ok with the role-flip only to DoT and not the thread?)
     
----------
Doppelganger
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Doppelganger Leader
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Enchanter
    Y: 7
    N: 3
     
      Y) And similar roles
----------
Ghost
    Y: 3
    N: 7
     
      Y)  with PM ban
----------
Kook
    Y: 6
    N: 4
     
----------
Mad Scientist
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     
      Y) Should be hard to tell apart from alien
----------
Medium
    Y: 9
    N: 1
     
      Y) Add Dopp Medium
      Y) If there is a Dopp version

----------
Mind Knife
    Y: 5
    N: 5
     
----------
Mind Shield
    Y: 9
    N: 0
     
      Y ) "if Telepath result is random (If Survive, then only Kill, Protect, and Find appear) instead of not given"
      Y) Much more common
----------
Paranoid War Vet
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
      Y) Dopp version too?
----------
Protector
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Psi-Hunter
    Y: 7
    N: 3
     
----------
Psychic Warden
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Reporter
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
      Y) Clear up action words.
----------
Silent Specter
    Y: 1
    N: 9
     
----------
Telepath
    Y: 10
    N: 0
     
----------
Townsperson
    Y: 9
    N: 1
     
----------
Twisted Soul
    Y: 2
    N: 8
     
----------
Warlock
    Y: 9
    N: 1
     
      Y) "Random lynch kill, not only the last"
----------
Watcher
    Y: 8
    N: 2
     

Since I haven't gotten any more votes for roles, I'm going to start doing write-ups based on what I've gotten here. I may not include all of these in the official rules yet, since some of them may need some pondering. But I'll include those that I've got a good handle on (like the Cultists and the Alien Scientist), and at least group the others into Include/Not Include groups.

[Alexhans]

nah... but knowing stuff like if you were attacked and stuff like that limits fake claims a GREAT deal...

[JanusTwoface]

I like the idea of anything that would slightly weaken the ability to say (for example).
"There are two reporters, one of them must be a dopp"

To me, this seems to strain the suspension of disbelief a bit (yes, I realize that it's only a game).  Why couldn't there be two town reporters or two dopp reporters?  Maybe the program could be adjusted with some sort curve so that it's far more likely to have 0 or 1 of a role per side, but possible to have more.  (1/x-ish)

I think it might strengthen the dopps a bit.  Couldn't hurt too much as the town has been winning most games.

[JanusTwoface]

A random idea that came to me earlier today (it might already exist, but I'm not aware of it).  It's probably far too late to put this in round 7, but if it appeals to people, we could try for a later round.  (And yes, I realize that I'm adding to the crazy number of roles.  I don't really think that's a bad thing though.)

Either a psychic (or other) role or a scientist gadget that acts like a bug (the recording kind).  Any PMs sent to or from that player are forwarded on to the bugs owner.

Notes (for what I have so far):
- Psychic version can be blocked as other psychic abilities
- Gadget version can be blocked as other gadgets (can gadgets be blocked?)
- Maybe, too weaken, you cannot listen in to two consecutive time periods (day/night)
- Might be possible to be found out (random chance each day)

Basically, I'm looking for something that can vaguely mess with the formation of trusted groups, because information (such as keywords given to prove mediums before death, etc) may not necessarily be private.

Granted, this would require a small bit more work for the GM, but it seemed interesting enough to bring up here.

Comments? Concerns?

PS: Yes, I realize that I just posted two decently sized messages back to back.  But I just signed on and wanted to keep them separate.

[Mephansteras]

Take a look at the Watcher role in the suggested roles section on page 1. It's designed to do something like what you want, although it doesn't get the content of the messages.

[JanusTwoface]

Sorry I missed that, it was down at the bottom of not the first post.

Yeah, it does look similar, although I think the two ideas might be different enough.

The Snoop (random name for what I was thinking) can only target a single person but gets more information.  The Watcher gets more general information about everyone (if I read it correctly).

Although, in hindsight, we might already have enough roles if I couldn't find the Watcher the first time around.  :-D

[Mephansteras]

Ok, the revised rule configuration is up. Take a look at it and let me know what you think!