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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Toaster]

Can the script simply give the dopps one less teammate if they get a vig, or is the dopp count fairly static?

Does the Spore Spreader also have a survivor wincon, or must he be lynched?  Thematically, it'd seem that surviving would be fine, but considering gameplay that might make the role too easy.  Otherwise, I like the change.  Assuming the Spreader gets lynched, does he still win if neither carrier lives?  If so, it's like an oddball combo of jester, survivor, and cult in a good way.

Dopp Berserker?  Gets a one shot kill, but loses vote (or some other penalty) next day?  Could make it bypass protection for fun.

I like the idea of varied goals for the Xenozoologist.  Right now, they can negotiate with the town fairly easily.  Giving them the possibility of more anti-town goals could make that a harder prospect.

[Darvi]

I guess the carriers have to survive. For procreation, ya know. *g*

[Mephansteras]

Can the script simply give the dopps one less teammate if they get a vig, or is the dopp count fairly static?

Does the Spore Spreader also have a survivor wincon, or must he be lynched?  Thematically, it'd seem that surviving would be fine, but considering gameplay that might make the role too easy.  Otherwise, I like the change.  Assuming the Spreader gets lynched, does he still win if neither carrier lives?  If so, it's like an oddball combo of jester, survivor, and cult in a good way.

Dopp Berserker?  Gets a one shot kill, but loses vote (or some other penalty) next day?  Could make it bypass protection for fun.

I like the idea of varied goals for the Xenozoologist.  Right now, they can negotiate with the town fairly easily.  Giving them the possibility of more anti-town goals could make that a harder prospect.

Currently, no, it can't do that. It'd be a pretty major reworking to add that in, since roles are constantly changing as it tries to find a balance. It'd be easier for me to simply tell it that there has to be a non-role dopp for a vig to exist and then just swap that player to town/alien manually.

I think the Spore Spreader should be a pure jester, so he wins if and only if he gets lynched. Flavor-wise it could be at the end of its life-cycle and needs to die around lots of potential hosts soon. So as long as he gets lynched he wins. The Carriers are sort of their own team at that point. They just get created by the SS.

I kind of like the One-shot unstoppable kill idea. Probably doesn't need a drawback to be balanced since it's a one-shot. If it does get one it'll probably be that it HAS to perform both night-kills that night, which makes him more vulnerable to PWVs and tracking. Plus, if he gets blocked the dopps do no kills that night. Hmmm...I kind of like those ideas. Might make two varieties. One that just gets a one-shot kill and one that has the one-shot unstoppable kill but has the drawback.

[Toaster]

I think that'd help balance, though the fact that the number of dopps are known might be a giveaway.  I understand if it's a lot of work, but say for a 16 player game, 5 wimp dopps or 3 super dopps would be an interesting change, though the surprise is lost if the scum count is announced.  See Vote Mafia 7- everyone thought there were three scum, but in reality there were two very strong scum.

Fair enough re spreader.  Do the carriers know each other?

I do like the "Super killer does both kills" idea.  Very vulnerable to tracking, very helped by protection.  Making it one shot kind of negates the idea of making it more interesting for combat camo.

[Jim Groovester]

The dopps already have the option of an unblockable one shot nightkill, it's called a Military Scientist. And it's already more useful because it doesn't automatically implicate the dopps.

[Mephansteras]

The dopps already have the option of an unblockable one shot nightkill, it's called a Military Scientist. And it's already more useful because it doesn't automatically implicate the dopps.

Yes, and the Military Scientist would have a higher weight. I can also have my script restrict things so that you can't have more than one killer on the dopp team. So that's fine, it's just more options.

The fact that it's a one-shot kill does make the Dopp kill camo less useful. But I think it'd still be more useful than it is currently. And, of course, Combat Camo is more geared towards a Vig claim anyways. The other types are just in there to provide the Exterminator more options in case it comes in handy.

On the Spore Carriers...I don't think they'd know who each other is. Although it's easy enough to do either way. Might be too powerful having TWO survivors who know who each other are. Especially since you could have 1 be a former dopp and the other town. It'd make it too easy to make deals with either side and unbalance things.

Hmmm. Actually...that's a problem with having a former dopp at all. It'd be easy for him to betray the dopps to the town in exchange for protection. Might have to add in a no-betrayal clause to them. Have it so that they get mod-killed if they betray the dopps. Flavor-wise that's easy, just have something in the dopps psychic connection that kills them if they try that, even if the individual is no longer truly aligned with the rest of the dopps.

[JanusTwoface]

Or make the Survivor condition dependent on which team wins.  A former Dopp has to be alive *and* the Dopps win, a former Townie has to be alive *and* the town wins. Along with no direct communication.

[Leafsnail]

I think that'd help balance, though the fact that the number of dopps are known might be a giveaway.  I understand if it's a lot of work, but say for a 16 player game, 5 wimp dopps or 3 super dopps would be an interesting change, though the surprise is lost if the scum count is announced.  See Vote Mafia 7- everyone thought there were three scum, but in reality there were two very strong scum.

I think 5 dopps out of 16 players would probably win easily even if they were all vanilla.  Town would have to get 5 lynches right out of 7.  The scum team does get much stronger with each additional member (even huge, 20+ games never really have more than 5 on one team).

[Toaster]

What about Aliens?

I'd say just turn a former dopp into a mafia-ally.  Town converts can remain a survivor.  Flavorwise, the town would still think the former dopp is a real dopp and would kill him.

Leaf:  Probably right.  To get 5 on a team in a 16 man game, you'd need to restrict their night kill, which would completely break the game.

[Dariush]

Vigs are by definition a town-sided killing role. Mafia has already got one. So, I'm voting for the all-vigs-are-town. To make it less unfair, you could make flavors of vig kill be the same as dopp or exty kill.

[Mr.Person]

Vigs are by definition a town-sided killing role. Mafia has already got one. So, I'm voting for the all-vigs-are-town. To make it less unfair, you could make flavors of vig kill be the same as dopp or exty kill.

The problem with this is that whoever claims vig instantly becomes confirmed not-dopp. It's more than a bit unbalancing.

[Darvi]

Well, no. Claims can be lies, ya know.

[JanusTwoface]

But this one is provable. Tell someone ahead of time who you're going to kill and then follow through. Either get protected in the night or don't publically claim until you've already set this up.

[Darvi]

Ah.

[Mephansteras]

Plus Detectives check Roles. So an all-town role means a Detective would get both a Race and Role result, which is broken.


Pondering different types of Xenozoologists.

1) Zoologist: Current version. Must grab 1 non-psychic human, 1 psychic human, 1 Doppelganger, and 1 Alien
2) Tech Auditor: Goal is to determine how technologically advanced humans are getting. Must grab 2 different types of scientist, town or dopp.
3) Psychic Auditor: Goal is to determine how psychically advanced humans are getting. Must grab 3 different types of Psionic characters.
4) Military Auditor: Goal is to analyze human's potential as soldiers. Must capture a violent human (PWV, Vig, Vengeful Guard).
5) Doppelganger Analyst: Goal is to acquire doppelgangers for study. Must capture two doppelgangers.

Thoughts? I'd like to have at least 1 neutral scientist, 1 pro-town and 1 anti-town. With no way to determine what the scientist is really doing it'll make deals much harder.