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Keep it as is

3 (12%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win

1 (4%)

Change it to a full Jester, but without game-end on win

5 (20%)

Change it to a full Jester, with game-end on win AFTER day 3

3 (12%)

Change it to a Jester with the loss of the Next Day phase

4 (16%)

Remove it entirely

9 (36%)

Other (explain)

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

[Mr.Person]

As suggested, the psychic version is much, much better than the tech version. Possibility of 2 or 3 conversion in exchange for 1 guaranteed one? Yeah, I'll take the guarantee every time. Sometimes you'll go the whole game with no night actions of any sort done on you.

[Mephansteras]

Hmmm. What does everyone else think?

[RedWarrior0]

The choice of Hivemind is between reliability and capability, but, with the number of active roles, the Psychic is probably going to get more on average, so the Tech Hivemind might want a boost of some kind. How about they get either: a Large slot instead of a Medium, an additional Small slot, or something like that.

[Mephansteras]

Hmmm. Giving the Tech Hivemind an extra Small tech would probably work. That gives them the option of a Holoform or Personal Shield, both of which help protect them.

[Toaster]

I don't see that the tech one loses out that much.  Guardian certainly isn't guaranteed, and getting a Vengeful guard (or any sac-guard, really) is probably far more useful than many other roles, considering the risk of the Hivemind dying.

[RedWarrior0]

Oh wow, fail on reading for me. I swore it was like a reflex Cult leader, not the same thing as psychic. Did you change it?

[Mephansteras]

No, I didn't.

Although maybe it was worded oddly?

Here's the breakdown for what I'm currently doing:

Psychic Hivemind: Mentally dominates a human using Psychic powers. Blocked by Mind Shield. Advanced Mind Shield shows as 'Non Human' regardless of race. Can by role-blocked by Psychic Wardens. As a Psychic Being, the Hivemind Cannot take a Mind Shield as tech.

Tech Hivemind: Uses advanced technology to dominate a human. Blocked by Anti-Tech Field. Advanced Anti-Tech Field shows as 'Non Human' regardless of race. Cannot be role-blocked, but the target can be Guarded. A sacrificial Guard will be converted instead of the intended target. A Guardian will be able to protect the target and not get converted themselves.

[RedWarrior0]

As suggested, the psychic version is much, much better than the tech version. Possibility of 2 or 3 conversion in exchange for 1 guaranteed one? Yeah, I'll take the guarantee every time. Sometimes you'll go the whole game with no night actions of any sort done on you.

This is what made me think that. I blame Mr.Person.

[Mr.Person]

I like that difference.

I'm not sure what I was thinking before.

[Jim Groovester]

It seems like there's no good reason not to be a Tech Hivemind, because even if their action fails because of a Guard they still get converts, and useful ones too. And to top it off, they don't get roleblocked.

Why pick Psychic when you can be roleblocked and you won't accumulate Guards when your action fails?

I'd change it so that either:
A) All Guard variants can prevent a tech conversion and will not be converted in the target's stead.
Or:
B) Any psychic role that targets a Psychic Hivemind gets converted.

Either option would make for roughly equivalent Hiveminds. Option A makes for less potent cults and is the option I would personally prefer. Option B gives both Hiveminds useful converts if their actions fail.

[Mr.Person]

If you give a tech to a player, do they know who gave it to them?

[Mephansteras]

A isn't balanced, though. There are usually quite a lot of guards floating around, so the chances of your target being protected are pretty high.

The chances of being roleblocked are pretty slim.

Basically, my idea is that there are going to be few Guardians and few Psychic Wardens. The chances of the Hivemind being blocked by either role is fairly small. The Psychic Hivemind gets who they want, and the Tech Hivemind gets Guards. Both seem useful to me.

@Mr.Person: Yes.

[RedWarrior0]

Small tech: Stealth gift?

Ooh, Evil Santa Paranormal: There is an alien "Santa" who acts as an arsonist but also needs to give a certain amount of tech before he can fire the thing off.

[Argembarger]

So yes. Dopp vig or no dopp vig? That is the question. Whether 'tis better to ensure the existence of Vigs and allow WIFOM to their claims, or to prevent games like Para 18 from happening.

I think dopp vigs should be allowed, but the ratio of town to scum in that situation should be relatively high, as well as plenty of good strong town power roles.

[Mephansteras]

On the issue of Dopp Vig's, I'm thinking I'll keep them in but change the weighting to be more extreme. Probably to the point where the dopps will end up with nothing but very weak or non-powered roles. It'd make the Vig a good/bad point for them. With him they have a lot of power, but if he dies they're suddenly underpowered. And, yeah, I know they make the game really swingy. That's why they rarely get into games as it is.


For the Spore Spreader, I'm thinking something like this:
   The actual Spore Spreader is a Jester. They need to get lynched to activate their spores. (Night kills no longer trigger it) Two random players of any race are then converted into Spore Carriers. The carriers are Survivors who win if either of them makes it to the end. Carriers are not far enough along in the spore process yet to trigger the spores and need to survive to get to that point. Not sure if the carriers would keep their roles or not.


I'm also thinking of adding in another dopp killing role. Less powerful than the Vig and it would use the regular dopp kill flavor. Something to make the Exterminator's camo useful for actually doing a dopp-style kill. Right now that screams Exterminator just as much as a plasma kill does. Might be a one-shot kill or something like that.


The Xenozoologist also needs to be tweaked, simply because we're not getting large enough games anymore to reliably have him show up. Might have several varieties with different goals, but I need to think about it.