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[Sergius]

I think that that's a bit of an exaggeration - Fundies will always be around no matter what and they're really the only people who'd act like that. I'm not sure what you mean about eliminating mob mentality. Do you mean stopping people from all backing up each other when trying to push a point? Because I don't think that's possible, because it's not exclusive to religion. Everyone who has a viewpoint that's shared (and it doesn't have to even be very widely shared) by others will be backed up by them when they try to assert it, it's just that religion is one of the biggest mobs out there. I think it's more important to change the views than prevent the mob, because that's actually possible.

What I mean is backing up each other just because they belong to the same group, not because they actually share the point. Yes, it's not exclusive to religion, but normally it's exclusive to big ideological groups controlled by a common "title", like Christians or Republicans or whatever, that are in a good position of power. I mean, look at the bipartisan system in the USA: how many people are actually in favor of 100% of the ideas of something like the Democratic party? Yet, when push comes to shove, they'll back each other even on the most extreme things and pat each other on the shoulder because they don't want to look weak or be frowned upon by their brothers in arms. They can't admit that something about their group is wrong (even if they think so) because they believe that would cast the entire ideology in doubt.

Then there is the whole problem that non-religious people have to "play nice" with religious people (not the other way around) because otherwise you're oppressing them...

[Siquo]

Leafsnail, Sergius, you're both repetitive and not bringing something new.

In random order:
- The thinly veiled insult was specifically to Jack, who has been treating me the same way, if not all-out trolling. If any other statement made you feel inferior, that's... well, that's your problem. Deal with it. I don't judge people on what they believe in, and, if that makes me holier than thou, then thou shouldst try to get holier, shouldn'st thou? (So much for AD&D faux-olde-english)
- We were talking about Logic, if in that context I use Grammar, then it should be obvious I don't mean linguistic grammar.
- Exploitation and fallacies are unfounded fears. Every thing you stop believing in seems like a stupid thing to believe in, in hindsight, otherwise you wouldn't have stopped believing in it in the first place. The infallibility of "reasoning" is one of them, for me.
- 3 year olds would make fantastic scientists, unnecessary emphasis mine:

  "Sit down before facts like a child, and be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing."  -T.H. Huxley

- I'm kind of fed up of replying to people who try to "win" the "argument". So whenever one does, and won't change, I let him "win" so we can get that behind us and move on.

Sooo now that I have the last word, which means I WIN MUHAHA.

Jack, what would you fight against? Every dogma will only be replaced with a new one, I'm afraid. I think a lot of people have a dogma-vacuum, that must be filled one way or another. It must be a great way to live, not having to think for yourself, and always having friends you agree with. Yesterday we got a centre-right government, including the largest Christian party, and an islam-hating party. In the gddmn government. I don't even. But fight? How?

[Il Palazzo]

Can I unsubscribe from this thread? I'd like to unsubscribe.

[Sergius]

- The thinly veiled insult was specifically to Jack, who has been treating me the same way, if not all-out trolling. If any other statement made you feel inferior, that's... well, that's your problem. Deal with it.

So, you respond to the accusation of making veiled insult with another veiled insult? Nice. "I'm sorry if I'm making people feel like idiots!" implies that they DO feel like idiots, instead of feeling that you CALLED them idiots in your own roundabout, patronizing, childish and falsely polite way.

And you just said that thinking is stupid. Congratulations.

[Jackrabbit]

- The thinly veiled insult was specifically to Jack, who has been treating me the same way, if not all-out trolling. If any other statement made you feel inferior, that's... well, that's your problem. Deal with it. I don't judge people on what they believe in, and, if that makes me holier than thou, then thou shouldst try to get holier, shouldn'st thou? (So much for AD&D faux-olde-english)

So it actually was an insult? Grow up. I wasn't trolling you, you just don't seem to be able to accept any opinion other than your own, which is ironic. You're looking for an out, you ignore people calling you out on your logical fallacies and outright insane statements and you invent parts of other people's arguments just so you have something to come back with. All you're doing now is saying "oh, Jack, but you're so ignorant, must be nice" instead of actually replying with anything valid. And you openly admit that you're just insulting me now. What is wrong with you?

Jack, what would you fight against? Every dogma will only be replaced with a new one, I'm afraid. I think a lot of people have a dogma-vacuum, that must be filled one way or another. It must be a great way to live, not having to think for yourself, and always having friends you agree with. Yesterday we got a centre-right government, including the largest Christian party, and an islam-hating party. In the gddmn government. I don't even. But fight? How?

And again, I don't understand what you mean. Are you saying we should do nothing? I've already told you what I want to fight against, the use of religion to justify terrible acts. The whole point is to replace the dogma with new dogma. That's what I've been saying. You really are incredible.

I think that that's a bit of an exaggeration - Fundies will always be around no matter what and they're really the only people who'd act like that. I'm not sure what you mean about eliminating mob mentality. Do you mean stopping people from all backing up each other when trying to push a point? Because I don't think that's possible, because it's not exclusive to religion. Everyone who has a viewpoint that's shared (and it doesn't have to even be very widely shared) by others will be backed up by them when they try to assert it, it's just that religion is one of the biggest mobs out there. I think it's more important to change the views than prevent the mob, because that's actually possible.

What I mean is backing up each other just because they belong to the same group, not because they actually share the point. Yes, it's not exclusive to religion, but normally it's exclusive to big ideological groups controlled by a common "title", like Christians or Republicans or whatever, that are in a good position of power. I mean, look at the bipartisan system in the USA: how many people are actually in favor of 100% of the ideas of something like the Democratic party? Yet, when push comes to shove, they'll back each other even on the most extreme things and pat each other on the shoulder because they don't want to look weak or be frowned upon by their brothers in arms. They can't admit that something about their group is wrong (even if they think so) because they believe that would cast the entire ideology in doubt.

Then there is the whole problem that non-religious people have to "play nice" with religious people (not the other way around) because otherwise you're oppressing them...

So we should change what people believe, or how they view things through the stained glass of religion. The majority of Christians are either in favor or not against homosexuality, so it can be done, but it is difficult. How do you think we should do it?

[Siquo]

So, you respond to the accusation of making veiled insult with another veiled insult? Nice. "I'm sorry if I'm making people feel like idiots!" implies that they DO feel like idiots, instead of feeling that you CALLED them idiots in your own roundabout, patronizing, childish and falsely polite way.

I never said idiot, but you're tempting me. Get a life. And some self esteem, while you're at it.

[Micro102]

*ignores Siquo*

Well the number of atheists are steadily climbing so maybe one day religion will disappear.


On another note, found a nice video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

Improved version

http://vimeo.com/11315339

[Jackrabbit]

*ignores Siquo*

Well the number of atheists are steadily climbing so maybe one day religion will disappear.

Who knows what the future will hold? If someone conclusively proves the lack of a God, then perhaps in time it will. I doubt it though, proof doesn't mean much to some people.

What won't stop is people looking for organized groups or beliefs as an excuse to do terrible things. That's the main problem I think needs to be adressed.

[Sergius]

So, you respond to the accusation of making veiled insult with another veiled insult? Nice. "I'm sorry if I'm making people feel like idiots!" implies that they DO feel like idiots, instead of feeling that you CALLED them idiots in your own roundabout, patronizing, childish and falsely polite way.

I never said idiot, but you're tempting me. Get a life. And some self esteem, while you're at it.

Wee, you're in a roll! You just said that I have no life! And no self esteem! So, insulting people means they have no self esteem! Awesome!

Now, some of us are trying to have an interesting conversation, so if you're done with your constant "think nothing! believe everything! y'all are stupid!" trolling...

[Sergius]

*ignores Siquo*

Well the number of atheists are steadily climbing so maybe one day religion will disappear.

Who knows what the future will hold? If someone conclusively proves the lack of a God, then perhaps in time it will. I doubt it though, proof doesn't mean much to some people.

What won't stop is people looking for organized groups or beliefs as an excuse to do terrible things. That's the main problem I think needs to be adressed.

Yeah. That's pretty much it. I don't think you can "get rid of mob mentality" as I said in my previous post, in fact I was trying to say that it probably was impossible. But it would be nice if society as a whole doesn't give it a free pass for every petty thing they do in the name of "favoured ideology".

[MetalSlimeHunt]

On another note, found a nice video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

I highly doubt the accuracy of that video.

[Sergius]

On another note, found a nice video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

I highly doubt the accuracy of that video.

You mean the numbers? Well it cites sources, I think, you could check them.

[Siquo]

so if you're done

Yep. 

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I mean the number of notable people it claims to be atheists. I know at least some of the ones listed are atheists, but others make me think they might have just pulled any notable person who could be seen as being an atheist and put it in the video.

[Sheb]

Well, it's all depend on wheter you define atheist as "Believe there is no god" or "Don't believe there is a god".