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[MrWiggles]

Isn't atheism the belief that there is not God?

If there was no God to reject, they'd be right, but they'd still believe there wasn't a God.

No, Atheism is the rejection of god(s).

Its phrased as 'I believe there no god', because language sucks at none belief statements.

It also sucks for time traveling.

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There not even a word I'm familiar with that means none belief. I suppose they can be hyphenated. None-belief.

I suppose the phrase of 'I reject there is a god.' could be used to lessen confusion, but its out of parlance with every day speakers.

[Grakelin]

Rejecting the existence of something is the same as not believing in it. If you do believe in something, your rejections are lies because you do not actually believe what you are saying to be true.

Since I'm still assuming English is not your first language, try mulling this over in your native language until you find a definition that makes sense.

If I am wrong (and please tell me if I am), and you are a native Anglophone, please learn how to speak your own language before you criticize it for not being able to form the words you want.

[Cheeetar]

Yes. This I get. I was saying, in response to Neruz saying that atheism is simply the denial of beliefs, I added that in that by denial of beliefs he meant just beliefs pertaining to god existing in the affirmative.

I dont think a rejection can be an affirmative since it can only exist if there something to reject. If there was no god to reject, there would be no atheists.

Rejection is the default position.

Neruz said:
It is not a system of beliefs, rather it is the denial of beliefs.

I said:
And not all beliefs, merely (a) belief(s) that god(s) exist(s).




By in the affirmative, I meant it denied those that believe in god, those that are in the affirmative view of god existing.

[Grakelin]

I also deny the existence of established deities, but I am not an atheist.

[Neruz]

I also deny the existence of established deities, but I am not an atheist.

Do you believe in a God or Gods, God or Gods being any sort of supernatural force?

[Grakelin]

I would be more likely to be labelled as a Deist or a Pantheist, both of which are religions.

EDIT: Your definition of God is a bit off. I might believe in ghosts, but not believe they created the universe, for instance. This is just me being nitpicky, though.

[Neruz]

Yeah, what i meant was a non-god supernatural force. I know there's one Religion that believes that the Universe itself is a sort of semi-living force, not technically a God per say, but close enough.


Deism and Pantheism are both subsets of Theism, and thus if you follow either you are ovbiously not an Atheist.

[Grakelin]

I am not an Atheist, as I have stated several times in this thread.

[Neruz]

Yes, i know.

I'm trying to work out why you keep saying that, i assumed when you started saying it that you kept getting mistaken for one or something, but i can't see any evidence of that. So yeah.

[Grakelin]

Because the definition of Atheism being put forward is 'the rejection of established deities' or even 'the rejection of people who believe in established deities' as a way of loop-holing the idea of Atheism being a religion (the latter is called prejudice, incidentally, and is bad).

I will say again: Rejecting the existence of something and not believing in it is the same thing.

[Neruz]

Because the definition of Atheism being put forward is 'the rejection of established deities

No it is not. Go back and re-read the thread. There is nothing about 'established' deities in the definition.

[Grakelin]

Please lay out the definition again so that everybody is clear.

[Neruz]

Atheism is the rejection of Theism. Theism being "Belief in God or Gods"

Atheism, therefore, is anyone who does not believe in any Gods of any shape or size.

[Grakelin]

So then Atheism is a religion because the their belief system is that Gods do not exist, and thus did not create the universe, did not supply the universe with a purpose, and (since without a Deity, the creation of the universe falls to conventional science to uncover) feels that the nature of the universe lies in conventional science.

All three of these points are covered. Feel free to pick this apart.

[Neruz]

their belief system is that Gods do not exist

No.

To use an analogy, the Theist takes a blank piece of paper and writes "God" upon the paper. The Atheist takes a blank piece of paper and leaves it blank.

Or, to use a different analogy, the Theist is Light, the Atheist is Darkness. Is Darkness a different kind of Light? No, it is the absense of Light. That is what Atheism is, the absense of a belief in God or Gods.


As much as you seem to hate the idea, not believing that something exists, and believing that something does not exist, are indeed two seperate things.

feels that the nature of the universe lies in conventional science.

Not neccessarily. Although this statement suggests that you do not understand what science is either.