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[Hoborobo234]

Ok, any one wanna join up the new Cult of Chaos, basted apon the chaos gods from WH. http://z3.invisionfree.com/Cult_of_Chaos/index.php?act=idx

[Yanlin]

No thanks. My cult is better.

[Akroma]

why WH ?

learn to make up your own gods, they might be actually interesting, instead of these lame stereotypes

[Rilder]

Convert to the Greek/Roman Pantheon and use the excuse to learn about history. 

[Awayfarer]

Ok, any one wanna join up the new Cult of Chaos, basted apon the chaos gods from WH. http://z3.invisionfree.com/Cult_of_Chaos/index.php?act=idx

Emphasis mine.

I'd rather have my cult dry rubbed and broiled.

[Aqizzar]

Relgion!

Emphasis mine.

Unfortunately it doesn't portmanteau with anything.

[LegoLord]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No thanks. My cult is better.

That's a bad reason to be atheist, just so y'all know.  There are better ones out there. 

Let's look at the butterfly in its chrysalis.  When it's ready to come out, you could carefully slice open the chrysalis, letting it out slip out and rejoin the world quickly, but then it is too weak to fly, as it did not strengthen itself by going through the trial that is the chrysalis.  This is almost identical to the way people are; if you always help a child do his school papers, will he ever learn to do them himself?  No, he will be lost in college, and will likely fail.

So, would any omnipotent being, knowing just how well this metaphor applies to people, knowingly weaken them by helping them all the time?  I doubt it.

I'm not saying "don't be atheist," but don't go whining about how God would be helping out if he was real, because he wouldn't - assuming he is real, which you don't have to believe.  Whatever you believe, even if it's a lack of belief, you should have a good reason.  Not having a good reason leads to conflict.  In the Crusades, there were many on either side who fully supported the war, simply because it was fought by the religion they were told to follow, and they never thought about it themselves.

[¿]

Isn't Epicurus making an assumption that evil has no purpose?

[Karlito]

Hey guys, since our last discussion about religion got locked, why don't we start it up here?  Or maybe we cool it for a little bit, and let this rather pointless thread die.  Please?

[Earthquake Damage]

Relgion!

Emphasis mine.

Unfortunately it doesn't portmanteau with anything.

It does, however, sound like the name of some fantasy barbarian warlord, or maybe some kind of robot.

[Armok]

Atheist here. However, for some fun discussion:

A kind and loving creator would never have done this, and a cruel one would simply have made the air out of acid.

Oxygen is in fact a fairly nasty chemical. It rusts iron, corrodes copper, and causes many other metals to tarnish or otherwise corrode. It combines with many, many common chemical compounds in a violently energetic and dangerous reaction - which we call fire. And there are some compounds it combines with even more violently, causing what we know as explosions. It can produce nasty byproducts in reactions within our bodies, which eat away at the cells of our bodies, causing damage to them, leading to degenerative diseases of the brain, muscles, and nervous system. (This is why antioxidants - things that prevent this effect of oxygen - are a good thing to have in your body.) Oxygen is dangerous, dangerous stuff.

[Emperor_Jonathan]

Valhalla is where it is at.

Atheist here. However, for some fun discussion:

A kind and loving creator would never have done this, and a cruel one would simply have made the air out of acid.

Oxygen is in fact a fairly nasty chemical. It rusts iron, corrodes copper, and causes many other metals to tarnish or otherwise corrode. It combines with many, many common chemical compounds in a violently energetic and dangerous reaction - which we call fire. And there are some compounds it combines with even more violently, causing what we know as explosions. It can produce nasty byproducts in reactions within our bodies, which eat away at the cells of our bodies, causing damage to them, leading to degenerative diseases of the brain, muscles, and nervous system. (This is why antioxidants - things that prevent this effect of oxygen - are a good thing to have in your body.) Oxygen is dangerous, dangerous stuff.

Why?

[mithra]

That's a bad reason to be atheist, just so y'all know.  There are better ones out there.

The reason to be an atheist is because there is no evidence for any god.  One issue that points out this lack of evidence is the problem of evil, which Epicurus is clearly stating.

Let's look at the butterfly in its chrysalis.  When it's ready to come out, you could carefully slice open the chrysalis, letting it out slip out and rejoin the world quickly, but then it is too weak to fly, as it did not strengthen itself by going through the trial that is the chrysalis.  This is almost identical to the way people are; if you always help a child do his school papers, will he ever learn to do them himself?  No, he will be lost in college, and will likely fail.

So the evil in the world is just like a chrysalis, or a child's homework.  Right.

So, would any omnipotent being, knowing just how well this metaphor applies to people, knowingly weaken them by helping them all the time?  I doubt it.

The metaphor doesn't apply well at all.  Unless you actually think evil things done to people are actually for their benefit.

I'm not saying "don't be atheist," but don't go whining about how God would be helping out if he was real, because he wouldn't - assuming he is real, which you don't have to believe.

It isn't about a god "helping me out," it's about an omnipotent and all-good being allowing evil.  Of course, if the god we're discussing is the one from the "Old Testament," then he performed plenty of evil acts on his own.

Whatever you believe, even if it's a lack of belief, you should have a good reason.  Not having a good reason leads to conflict.  In the Crusades, there were many on either side who fully supported the war, simply because it was fought by the religion they were told to follow, and they never thought about it themselves.

Not sure what your point is here.  That "Old Testament" guy I mentioned earlier directed his followers to perform plenty of evil acts, including war and genocide.  Those who directed and participated in the Crusades thought they had the best of reasons:  a god told them to do it.

[mithra]

Isn't Epicurus making an assumption that evil has no purpose?

I would say yes, and that he is correct in making that assumption.

[Dasleah]

I follow the Word of the Almighty Spellcheck in the Sky, so by this thread's title alone, I consider this entire thing blasphemous.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, I know what this end of the forum is like, and know you guys just can't have this - or any - kind of conversation without it devolving into a clusterfuck of off-topic and petty squabbling.