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Author Topic: Hero Cults  (Read 5786 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2009, 12:18:29 pm »

Thus did Copyright laws become incredably stupid.

While I believe there should be copyright... I don't think you should (You can but you shouldn't) be capable of copyrighting something that has been around for thousands of years.

Well at least Copyright laws arn't entirely silly. Apperantly you can't copyright function... or at least that is what I got from when Hooters tried to sue another restaurant for using sexy clothing.
-Note: Don't read too much into this. I have no respect for Hooters.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 12:20:13 pm by Neonivek »
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praguepride

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2009, 01:05:17 pm »

I read an article in the paper about how Microsoft is filing patents on 1's and 0's...
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

tigrex

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2009, 04:16:57 pm »

A few years ago, Microsoft tried to gain intellectual propriety over terms like "left-click", etc.  They should be called Microsoftinthehead.
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Urist McDetective

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 01:13:41 am »

Quote
Reply #__ on: April 01
This is what I meant~
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 - not only do they have the weapons, they also have the Fortresses -
I have noticed a rather mixed reaction with microcline, but what do people think of olivine?
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Awayfarer

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 06:55:58 am »

Very much want hero worship. The dwarves in my current fort practically already worship a dwarf by the name of Rith Questlabors. Seems like every other engraving is of him killing or maiming an elf.

I'm in the process of building a solid iron statue of this dwarf. He killed 120+ elves in his civ's final war. In the last two battles it was just Rith and his sidekick Fikod Workedglaze holding the fort against several hundred elves. Rith was the last to die. I'd like to imagine that the elf who devoured him subsequently choked to death on his extended middle finger.
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--There: Indicates location or state of being.
"The ale barrel is over there. There is a dwarf in it."
--Their: Indicates possession.
"Their beer has a dwarf in it. It must taste terrible.
--They're: A contraction of the words "they are".
"They're going to pull the dwarf out of the barrel."

cparax

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2009, 10:14:21 am »

Mostly related note: the reverse historical practice, explaining traditional gods as long-dehumanized ancient heroes, rulers, and villains, is called Euhemerism. The discovery of Indo-European deity continuity makes Euhemerus's theories obsolete when it comes to most of the Greek gods (and in his time it was scandalous enough that even the fairly agnostic academic field basically excommunicated him), but it's a popular theory among medieval thinkers. We owe almost everything we know about Norse mythology to it, incidentally - the most literary, lucid, and thorough source on Norse mythology, Snorri Sturlsson, was Catholic and wrote in great detail about pagan practices which, while mainly on the wane, still seemed to pose a 'threat' to the new religious order, and the Euhemerist concept made him comfortable with his work, kept it from being seen as heretical, and encouraged him to go into heavy detail on concepts which were taken for granted and elided out by writers who actually believed in the Norse pantheon.

One thing that's worth saying is that, as noted earlier, a lot of gods are traceable pretty well to (1) almost timeless reverences of elemental forces or (2) conscious invention by theistic natural philosophers looking to explain previously unexplored parts of the human experience. Hero worship should generally involve demigods, and it should bleed over into regnal apotheosis - in some dwarven cultures, the ruler - and sometimes even his subordinates, all the way down to barons - should have worshippers, and if your fortress is the Mountainhome worship of the god-king would supplement or replace the religion of a lot of dwarves, and the number of immigrants who move to you for religious reasons should eventually become a majority. And almost every noble ought to worship the King either exclusively or supplementally - nobles without the king as a god should be most other nobles' rival. Heroes should work similarly, although the worshippers would be mainly (A) their profession and/or (B) military, assuming they are.

Hero worship ought to definitely require at least one legendary (ideally well above Legendary-4) mood-qualifying skill. This makes the qualifications for demigodhood fairly steep but readily reachable without turning a dwarf who has spent three whole months pushing an unconnected pump around the next Hercules.
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zchris13

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2009, 04:55:57 pm »

I don't know.  A Legendary +5 Pump operator would be fairly flexy.
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cparax

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2009, 06:34:30 am »

And of course, the death of the ruler in an apotheosist regime (especially if his/her god-cult was widespread locally) would be a huge deal. The king or queen especially - massive ceremonies and tombs would be required, goods and dwarves would need to be sacrificed, and many of the ruler's worshippers would be flung into despair. (The noble ones less so - there's a subtle difference between the cult of the ruler-as-person and the cult of the ruler-as-official, the latter being primarily noble and the former primarily demotic.)

Needless to say, having the tomb of a god within your fortress would offer pilgrimages/tourism, increased immigration, and even the odd siege by greedy or ambitious fellow dwarves. (Or pious fellow dwarves, if you did something as vile as interring the god-king in a common grave or moving their remains.) In any case, it would be a special, objective-driven kind of siege - steal the King's body and leave. A particularly clever ruler could leave the body in state for a while, pinching a few relics (or manufacturing 'relics' from animal or dwarf bone and skin while the corpse is hidden from its supplicants) and using them as trade goods, decorations, and desired objects by certain nobles.
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cparax

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2009, 06:44:47 am »

Also, if the practice of apotheosis/relicary wasn't limited to dwarves, hilarity might ensue:

Bob Elfsalot has been ecstatic lately. He was shaken to his core by the death of his living god recently. He has taken solace in veneration of a priceless holy relic recently. He had a truly decadent meal lately.
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Mikademus

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2009, 08:05:34 pm »

I don't know.  A Legendary +5 Pump operator would be fairly flexy.

I heard this was how Conan started out.
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Servant Corps

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2009, 03:39:40 pm »

So, any comment on thsi idea now?
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2009, 04:20:21 pm »

You're wrong because Heracules becomes a god only after throwing Satan into hell.
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Dakk

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2009, 04:32:46 pm »

Wut.
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Jackrabbit

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2009, 04:56:55 pm »

lolwut.

There was no Hell in Greece, there was only Hades, ruled by Hades, which was where everyone went. And he didn't kill Hades, it being really really hard to kill a God. He just got his love back from him. Not that that's not impressive.
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Granite26

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Re: Hero Cults
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2009, 05:07:00 pm »

I don't see a difference (programatically) between a hero cult and new religion...  A hero cult is just a nacent one that will probably die out when the hero does.
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