Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mission0]

Basically I'm trying to figure out what makes the Goblins bring the trolls along with them during a siege. I was hoping to add a few more creatures for them to think along. I'm starting to think it is hard-coded but figured that I may as well ask to get a second opinion...

Goblin

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:GOBLIN]
   [NAME:goblin:goblins:goblin]
   [TILE:'g'][COLOR:7:0:0]
   [GLOWTILE:'"'][GLOWCOLOR:4:0:1]
   [GENPOWER:2]
   [EVIL]
   [INTELLIGENT][liKES_FIGHTING]
   [BONECARN]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [CHILD:12][BABY:1][MULTIPLE_LITTER_RARE]
   [SIZE:6]
   [FAT:2]
   [EQUIPS]
   [NOCTURNAL]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [LAYERING:10]
   [SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
   [PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
   [PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:ALTRUISM:0:25:50]
   [PERSONALITY:MODESTY:0:40:90]
   [PERSONALITY:SYMPATHY:0:25:50]

Troll

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CREATURE:TROLL]
   [NAME:troll:trolls:troll]
   [TILE:'T'][COLOR:0:0:1]
   [MODVALUE:10]
   [LARGE_ROAMING][BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM][EVIL][DIFFICULTY:2]
   [GENPOWER:4]
   [BLOODTYPE:C]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
   [GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
   [BONECARN]
   [SLOW_LEARNER]
   [liKES_FIGHTING]
   [LARGE_PREDATOR]
   [BUILDINGDESTROYER:2]
   [CANOPENDOORS]
   [PREFSTRING:terrifying features]
   [BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:4FINGERS:4TOES:MOUTH]
   [SIZE:9]
   [MAXAGE:800:1000]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:1:2:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
   [ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
   [EQUIPS]
   [FAT:5]
   [ALL_ACTIVE]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [LAYERING:50]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]

[Org]

Pretty sure it is hard coded.

[mission0]

Dang >_>

Was wanting to add in another creature to fight and siege against me while making sure the siege would be in sync with other creatures... perhaps I should just change the active seasons of the goblins and other creatures that I want to siege against me so that they come at the same time. This would make things too predictable.

[Footkerchief]

I don't think it's directly hardcoded.  It probably hinges on the trolls being [EVIL] and maybe some other attributes.

[mission0]

I figured it was something like that. My first thought was it may be some kind of pet thing but it's not in the troll tag. I haven't looked at the beak dogs yet, maybe they will reveal something...

nah I'm thinking like you said it would hinge on the evil tag.

[i2amroy]

From what I have gathered in my time as a modder it hinges on the goblin entity having the [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] tag and trolls and beak dogs being evil animals.

[Baltiel]

I think it's also because Trolls have [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM], and Goblins have [USE_CAVE_ANIMALS] as long as [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS].

[Blakmane]

I was pretty sure it's still a hardcoded relic. I've modded in dark elves with similar tags, but they have never brought trolls or beak dogs with them.

[Vattic]

Blackmane I'm pretty sure you can mod races to use mounts as the latest release Orc mod has 3 mounts for the Orcs, although I've not playing with the latest update yet so I haven't seen it myself. I thought Goblins rode beak dogs because the goblin entity has [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] and beak dogs have [EVIL] and [MOUNT] tags.

Humans bring horses as mounts when they attack because the human entity has the [COMMON_DOMESTIC_MOUNT] tag and horses have the [COMMON_DOMESTIC] and [MOUNT] tags it seems.

If that is the case then there are two ways to do mounts, through common domestic and good/evil. Does anyone know if Elves siege on Unicorns? its just the elven entity has the [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS] tag and unicorns have both [GOOD] and [MOUNT] tags.

As for trolls I get the unfortunate impression its hardcoded . It might have something to do with the [liKES_FIGHTING] tag, the wiki doesn't say exactly what it does might make them come along for war.

[i2amroy]

According to the wiki, elves will come mounted on Unicorns, unfortunately, I have never experienced an elven siege and can not confirm.

[mission0]

Looking at the orc mod there and the raws I have here, I would say the use evil animal tag and the evil tag may be what hinges it... I'll have to look through the raws a bit more and a bit of testing.

Just looked through the "threat meter" on the wiki and I think that the goblins are using evil animals that they find in mountains, I have a feeling if I were to change say the blizzard man to live on mountains instead of glaciers we would see goblins attacking with them. Still more testing is needed.

edit: However I may be wrong since the beak dogs live in tropical and temperament climates, who knows.

[Blakmane]

As for trolls I get the unfortunate impression its hardcoded . It might have something to do with the [liKES_FIGHTING] tag, the wiki doesn't say exactly what it does might make them come along for war.

[liKES_FIGHTING] gives happy thoughts when the creature experiences combat. No idea if it does anything else, i've never played around with it much on a playable civ.

While I can get mounts with my other evil races, i've never managed to see them bring beak dogs. However, I can believe they are not hard-coded as i've never heard or tested contrary.

Trolls however, almost certainly are. I'd be pleasantly suprised if anyone managed to get them on another race.

[mission0]

I think I'll pm Rysith *the creator of the orc mod* to see how he linked creatures to the orcs, I'm pretty sure it was the evil and mount tags but can't hurt to ask.

[Dorten]

I was pretty sure it's still a hardcoded relic. I've modded in dark elves with similar tags, but they have never brought trolls or beak dogs with them.

That's just a bad luck. You see, I've never EVER seen goblins bringing a troll or a beak dog in my forts...

[Rysith]

I think I'll pm Rysith *the creator of the orc mod* to see how he linked creatures to the orcs, I'm pretty sure it was the evil and mount tags but can't hurt to ask.

Replying in the thread, to spread the knowledge that I have.

In general, creatures with animals that have [MOUNT] will bring those along as mounts on sieges. Aligned creatures (with the [GOOD] or [EVIL] tags) can only be used by entities with [USE_GOOD_ANIMALS] and [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS], respectively. Civilizations will also only bring along animals that appear in their region of control, which I believe is a three-by-three world map tile area centered on each of their fortresses. This means that beak dogs in vanilla are fairly rare, since the goblin civ needs to build a fortress next to an evil swamp. By contrast, the Orc's elephants (evil grasslands and jungles) show up fairly commonly. A single fortress can supply mounts for the entire civilization, so expansive civs will be more likely to have mounts, as well.

So, to get a mount all you need to do is add a creature with the [MOUNT] tag and make sure that the civ can use it. Any siege you get will show up with either just the leaders or everyone mounted. Note that any other civ that can use the animal may use it as a mount too, so keep that in mind when setting the tags. For testing purposes, you can set the biome to [ANY_LAND] to let them show up anywhere, which helps. I'm not sure how they deal with multiple possible mount creatures, but I've only ever seen one kind of mount per civ, so removing other mounts might be a good idea during testing.

This makes me think that Trolls are hard-coded, since they don't have the [MOUNT] tag, but you never see goblins showing up with the other evil animals. The fact that they showed up alongside the goblins, not being ridden by goblins, also seems to point to that to me. I'll admit, though, the I've never seen a Troll show up in 3d, so that may have been made consistent and all that remains are stories from the elders.