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[Flaede]

I'm going to be a bit of a bastard here;

Is there a function to having stars in a top-down game? I see very little, other than SPAAAACE INVADERS or comets which could easily be fudged events.

...well, for one 'gimmie' answer, the Sun doesn't always rise in the east in DF. And that changes what side of the mountain stays dark longer. Moons and numbers of them could change tides.

These are all things I could see happening. (and aren't "astrology" based, really, but I support nonsensical astrology, too. Then I can mod in Duckula)

[Granite26]

which would help make it easier for everyone to understand how it was working.

Wait, since when was this a goal?

[Flaede]

which would help make it easier for everyone to understand how it was working.

Wait, since when was this a goal?

Yeah, it is astrology after all. No one should really understand that stuff... unless you devote your fort to building a giant timekeeping Orrery thing and give it an imortal crazy-person to run it.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, I personally don't really care if it's easy or hard to understand. I'm just giving possible reasons as to why getting what I want might benefit others.

To be honest, I wasn't even putting a whole lot of effort into it...

[Pilsu]

Don't really agree with randomly spawning fire elementals just because planets are in position A

Stuff like weather being affected by the sphere seems more natural. Sphere of fire would probably be a desert so Mars' alignment would probably cause increase in temperature, less rain and frequent sandstorms. And considering climate isn't regional, it'd probably cause large scale effects such as increase in wind during activity

[Felblood]

My intention was that to emphasize the idea that astral events mostly change the severity, or timing of your normal hazards. As I said, my examples are not really very good.

The hypothetical fort would get flooded anyway, the extra water just makes the flooding worse.

The frogmen would raid you every year regardless; the water up-cycle just forces them to invade on a specific day. Only when things have gotten well and truly out of the realm of annual, or even normal events, should really whacked out stuff (like extra elemental creatures) start happening.

I suspect the most useful thing an astrologer will do is pick the most auspicious time of year to forge your admantium weapons. (Whoo! War, metal and craftsmanship are all high right now. It's time to get my weaponsmith on!)

I'd like to see this need to combine with sphere aligned lands, to produce anything spectacular. If you build a fort on a volcano, in a fire aligned desert, on a planet with lot's of firey astral bodies, you deserve exactly what you get, and you deserve some fun fun.

For  more sensibly located fortress, I'd like astrology to feel like the man behind the curtain. Are my crops failing because I'm not fertilizing them, or is i the stars? Was my champion's tantrum from poor management, or was it the stars? Did I do something to tick off the humans, or is this siege somehow due to the stars? Higher levels of sparring injury? Maybe it's the stars?

Some stuff should be obvious folklore that any peasant knows. In world with a month owned by death, a farmer should know that plants need extra TLC that month. However, for rarer events, like planetary alignments and comets and supernovas, you should need an astrologer to understand what they mean, let alone predict them.

If a certain event happens every 217 days, once or twice a year, and most of the time it happens independently or in the presence of opposed spheres, the player isn't even going to notice, let alone make a note of how much time passes in between. When that event finally does coincide with aligned events, it's a surprise to anyone who doesn't have an astrologer to keep track of these thing for him.

This was the real point of the earlier example, wherein the player got used to the more predicable elements working in his favor.

"The frogs won't attack until the full moon.

"Oh, Armok! I forgot about the water star!

"Curse you Water Star!"

[Neonivek]

Don't really agree with randomly spawning fire elementals just because planets are in position A

Stuff like weather being affected by the sphere seems more natural. Sphere of fire would probably be a desert so Mars' alignment would probably cause increase in temperature, less rain and frequent sandstorms. And considering climate isn't regional, it'd probably cause large scale effects such as increase in wind during activity

Actually Pilsu, Spherical lands are not so mundane. A Fire Spherical Land could encompass Forests to rivers creating trees of fire and rats that breath smoke (One example toady gave himself was trees that bleed or was it a river of blood?)

So the astrological effects could increase or decrease the Spherical land's Power or Size. So if it was normally not so alligned as to make creature's whome were made of fire previously, then it has such power now. Temperature could be an interesting effect also though, making it impossible to traverse the fire-land (Though whome would try to do so anyhow?)... Heck Temperature could even explain why there are fire elementals, the Fire Desert (as you so stated) became so hot that Fire elementals had to form because they are the only ones who could survive, well them and the Magma men.

Careful with your Whip of the Mundane Pilsu. You use it FAR too often even when the suggestion is in line with Toady Development.

[Granite26]

Other suggestions for uses of astrology: *Ignore the could-should cases, please*

Mundane:
    RNG Stuff: I've already mentioned cycling all sorts of weather effects based on astrology to make them both random and predictable.  Any other randomly occuring event could be tied to these events.  (As more likely or possible, never as definite)
    The dragon ate the sun:  Connecticut Yankee, nuff said.  Actually, I think this one's in the dev notes somewhere.
    Full Moon.  Knowing when the full moon is = Neat Werewolves
    Finding the Ark.  Certain points on the earth could be considered Th aligned.  When the moon aligns with it, you are shown the way (once per month).  Magic versions of this involve portals to other planes and whatnot.  This is the astrological equivilent of Ley line nodes.
    Fortune telling.  Do you feel lucky, punk?  Astrology is used to predict victory in conflict.  Unfortunately, everyone sees the same sky.  (This is... astrology that doesn't work determining what people think they can do, which means that the alignment for warfare is a selffulfilling prophecy)
   Natural Civ cycles.  Civilizations rise and fall.  The race of humanity spreads across the globe only to be beaten back by the elvish hordes.  Kobolds slowly expand their tunnels only to be destroyed by a massive goblin invasion.  The Elves and Goblins fight, leaving humans to slowly rebuild.  -  Right now it's a slow grind to an inevitable conclusion.  A natural cycle that empowers some and weakens others could lead to a more natural balance of power.

Magic:
    Obviously sphere-based magics w(c)ould become more powerful.  At the basic level, the fire imp does X% extra damage or Fellblood's Magma Pits spawn invasions Y% more often.  (Or basically, the randomly spawned invasions become more likely during those periods)  This isn't very interesting for wandering mages, but it creates interesting 'we have to attack now, it's the only point the wizard is vulnerable' situations (for sphere nadirs).  Also, laying enchantments is best when timed.
    Artifacts could be based on astrology.  During high magic periods, artifacts are more likely to occur, Artifacts base their (eventual) powers on them, etc
    Krynn has some neat astrology, from the moons being other worlds(planes) to the constellations in the sky disapearing when the deities they represent are active on the surface.  It also uses the very simple 'magicians of a certain alignment are more/less powerful on seperate lunar cycles' case

[Neonivek]

Prophetic Cosmos:
-Certain Celestial objects could have an appearance that depends on the status of the linked individual, entity, or civilisation.

For example a Star could be linked to the Dragon Zigra

When the Dragon takes over the town and rules it with an iron fist... It burns brightly

when the Dragon is crippled the star dims

When the dragon is dead the star disapears forever.

[Granite26]

Prophetic Cosmos:
-Certain Celestial objects could have an appearance that depends on the status of the linked individual, entity, or civilisation.

For example a Star could be linked to the Dragon Zigra

When the Dragon takes over the town and rules it with an iron fist... It burns brightly

when the Dragon is crippled the star dims

When the dragon is dead the star disapears forever.

Awesome.

Also... Feedback loop.  Evil guy is planning (chuckle) to use the alignment of Zigra with Mars and Venus to boost his 'kill all dwarves' spell, so you go and kill the dragon to stop it.

[Hectonkhyres]

The implications of this idea get more interesting with every passing glance. You guys might not know it... but you have just invented the basis for ice ages, sea level changes, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, locust swarms, meteor storms, hurricanes, and the origin of new species.

[Foa]

I'd like to request 13 moons in the DF sky, each of which could then function as a "plane" to explore via portal, when we get portals to other planes in the game.

I think it'd be more interesting, instead of having D&D style "planes" of elements, etc., have otherworldly "planes" actually be objects (moons) in the sky that can be seen at night.

Astrology in DF could then be a bit simplified, since it would deal with just the relation of the various moons to the main DF planet, which would help make it easier for everyone to understand how it was working.

May they be Spatial/Aspect/Scale-Warping Windows? ( wink )

[Mel_Vixen]

Well on the understanding part:

We already can talk to people, have engravings and we get books (and other art). It isnt so far of to talk with people over the stars and astrologie. For example The Kings Adviser could be an "Astrologer". If you want now to know something about the stars go ask them or get an book over Astrologie from the capitals Libary.

Engravings could also hint to stuff. For example why is this dish showing the Plaiads, the waxing cresent Moon and an door at the mountain you just visited? You have never seen an door!

Starmaps are also pretty common in history. A good bunch of them involve/show special alignments of stars with advices and Interpretations.

Astrologie could also help you to get special or regather information. If you get an picture but you dont know in which its made maybe the stars in the background can give you a hint.

[Felblood]

While bringing a cheap alminac to tide you over, until you get a real astrologer might be nice, I think an actual astrology skill would add to the
mystique. Say, your first three years, you get basic astrology for free, but after that, you need to get a local guy.

Moon phases and what month it is should always be available What they mean and which of those dots are planets, comets and useful constellations should take someone who had studied and practiced this craft.

[Flaede]

I like that, Felblood. It makes it more like the bookkeeper, so that you don't have to wait for an Astrology noble to arrive to get some of the flavour. It also puts some of that information directly into the player-who's-paying-attention's hands, but keeps a whole whack of it just so frustratingly out of reach. Which keeps you wondering about whether something has significance or not. I like that approach quite a lot, and anyone who really needs to know can wander the wiki trying to figure it out.

Also - no one has mentioned the undead in a while.
"He can be brought back to life by a secret rite, performed once a century, when the moon is in the eigth house of..." stuff. or even the idea that the spirits of the dead can communicate with or even posess the living (depending on The Sky) during a certain time. Half way between the fall equinox and the winter solstice, lets say.