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Poll

Do you view female dwarves as having beards?

Yes.
- 131 (51.2%)
No.
- 96 (37.5%)
I don't view either gender as having facial hair.
- 2 (0.8%)
What the hell is a dwarve?
- 11 (4.3%)
I think Toady said something about this one time, and I'm too spineless to make a wrong guess that might contradict DF canon.
- 16 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 256


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Author Topic: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?  (Read 16877 times)

Rhodan

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2009, 12:14:21 pm »

Hurrah, Discworld!
I also prefer my female dwarves bearded for this reason, it just feels right.  But if Toady decides DF's standard dwarves have no bearded females, that's fine.  Nothing a nice Discworld mod can't fix.  With dwarf bread and sapient pearwood and counting pines and fat mines.
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Jude

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2009, 12:19:28 pm »

I definitely picture all dwarves with beards, females absolutely included. Maybe that's a Discworld influence but that's just how I see it. I hate any game where dwarves are represented graphically and the females don't have beards.
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Lemnx

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2009, 12:24:28 pm »

How else would my female fisherdwarf be fishing?
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DeKaFu

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2009, 02:31:47 pm »

I absolutely prefer female dwarves to be bearded.

On some reflection, I think my reason has a lot to do with being a female gamer who is consistantly frustrated by the usual depictions of female characters. I always end up playing male characters in games, because the fact that every female fantasy person has the same hyperfeminized shape and inability to wear real (stylish, non-skanky) clothing annoys me to my very core.

Therefore, the idea of a race that completely inverts that trend strikes me as absolutely charming.  :D
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Pilsu

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2009, 03:51:15 pm »

Even without beards the dwarven women are usually ugly in art by our standards. For a race of unimaginative short drunkard humans, I don't think more than that is necessary
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Aqizzar

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2009, 04:02:56 pm »

unimaginative short drunkard humans

I guess that's where the perspective really differs.  I don't see dwarves as 'human' at all.  They're dwarves, with dwarven traits, dwarven minds, and dwarven looks.

I'll probably wind up modding them even more myself.  Give women beards, then all dwarves grey/blue skin or something, and stones in their organs.  And make elves hollow like birds.
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Kishmond

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2009, 05:20:15 pm »

By default I use the Discworld view: Almost zero physical difference between genders.

But If it's canon that females don't have beards... well technically they don't have mammaries either. Not in the raws, you see.

But if you keep down that path it also means dwarves don't have any reproductive organs whatsoever. Only confusion there.

Jackrabbit

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2009, 05:22:36 pm »

We need a discworld mod. I wanna mine fat! I would do it but I'm really lazy
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Fenrir

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2009, 05:51:38 pm »

By default I use the Discworld view: Almost zero physical difference between genders.
Then they're not really different genders.
But If it's canon that females don't have beards... well technically they don't have mammaries either. Not in the raws, you see.
We're talking about what Toady says that he will put in the raws later.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2009, 06:06:34 pm »

I have to go with no beards. I've never liked the idea of them with beards, probably because of too much stock fantasy with them being beardless. And it's canon, so that helps.

Mostly, I tend to think of them like Pella from Looking For Group. Very strong, (kind of overly muscular, really) and stocky, but no beards.
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Karlito

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2009, 06:42:09 pm »

By default I use the Discworld view: Almost zero physical difference between genders.
Then they're not really different genders.
Well actually they are, there's just cultural pressure on Discworld dwarf females to pretend like there isn't.
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Keldor

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2009, 07:19:19 pm »

As for beards being "unattractive" on females, just consider that different species have different tastes.

Some would consider this sexy, for instance:
 

« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 07:21:19 pm by Keldor »
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azrael4h

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2009, 07:32:59 pm »

http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/211

The redhead, to be specific.

I have no idea why I picture them without beards. I just do.

IIRC, Tolkien never really delved into his Dwarves very much. There were only a handful of named dwarves, all male, but far fewer than the male elves and humans listed. Heck you can trace Aragorn's family straight back to the first king of Numenor. Where as the dwarves, Tulkas (IIRC) made the original 7 (mentioned as the "Fathers, perhaps they were asexual?) dwarves, and then there was the handful mentioned in The Hobbit and LotR. The Sil only mentioned a few more.

DnD, they have beards, and non-dwarves can't tell them apart. I draw this from a novel, in which after a battle it is mentioned that some number of women fell. Another character remarked that he never knew the difference. Apparently, other than the baby-making bits there are no gender differences in looks or social function.

What is Discworld?
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LegoLord

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2009, 07:36:30 pm »

No, I don't think they should have beards because humans don't. From an evolutionary standpoint, assuming dwarves share a common ancestor with humans, it would be likely that they would have similarities. As is, they are basically shorter, stronger, longer lived humans. It's hard to say how sexual selection would have effected them, especially considering beards as sterotypically used by hunters to stave off the hot sun or the cold. As is, dwarven women work just as well as the men, but then again it could be a relatively modern practice, just as deep shaft mining probably wouldn't have started until after metallurgy.

Judging by the presence of cave adaptation, dwarves aren't evolutionarily adapted to living underground, but rather they are culturally adapted. They may have had a predisposition to living underground after venturing into the mountains and living out of caves, but by lacking heavy body hair they share humans' sweat glands from spending long periods of time in the sun, running, or for swimming. This can be a good arguement of the common ancestor, probably also shared by elves. Goblins are a whole other story...

This is all speculation though, and it's practically impossible without empirical data because, well, there is none. But I would imagine that sexual dimorphism would be similar to humans and beards would be chosen as a predominantly masculine trait.
First came short, hairy apes.  Then came slightly less hairy, short, dwarves.  Then came humans, taller and with non-hairy females.  Then came elves, which never have much hair other than what's on top of their heads.

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Shzar

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Re: Do You Picture Female Dwarfs as Having Beards?
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2009, 07:37:13 pm »

But If it's canon that females don't have beards... well technically they don't have mammaries either. Not in the raws, you see.[/size]

Dwarves don't need mammaries. Everybody knows that dwarf mothers simply vomit semi-digested mixtures of ale and dog tallow roast onto their young and hope some of it sticks.

As for me, I'm inclined to think that dwarf women could have beards, despite my strange human sensibilities.

And Keldor, I saw that episode. That bird gave me nightmares.
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