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[Siquo]

He's a communist.

It should maintain national infrastructure and utilities. (This includes the availability of roads and power, food and shelter, and even modern or esoteric services that improve universal quality of life, such as medicine, education, management of natural resources, and communication.)

"Management of natural resources" is practically the nationalisation of all resources (ores, oil, etc).
Power-companies will also be nationalised to ensure availability.

[chaoticag]

The more you think about it, the less sense it makes... Should men really decide whether abortion ought to be legal or not instead of women?

[Servant Corps]

...Should humans really decide if it fetuses are human or not?

Just saying.

* Servant Corps runs.

[chaoticag]

Well, the way I see it, birth is a lifelong comittment, and not being able to raise your child right at the moment can sometimes be just as bad as murder. The mother should be able to decide whether or not she thinks she can raise a child, and not have the mentality of "you screwed up, deal with it" forced upon them by men who never have to make as much commitment as mothers do. It is really just a form of birth control, albiet the worst kind. Besides, as I know servant corps, you are a Muslim and doesn't the Quran say that the fetus doesn't have a soul until four months into pregnancy? Therefore, a fetus is only human four months in, not before.

[Yanlin]

Technically a fetus is not a human nor a citizen of any country. It is an illegal alien if you're technical about it. But since it has a family bond closer than marriage to the actual citizen... It cannot be deported.

[mainiac]

...Should humans really decide if it fetuses are human or not?

Just saying.

* Servant Corps runs.

Who else is going to?

[Pandarsenic]

It cannot be deported.

Oh yes it can.

[Servant Corps]

Well, the way I see it, birth is a lifelong comittment, and not being able to raise your child right at the moment can sometimes be just as bad as murder. The mother should be able to decide whether or not she thinks she can raise a child, and not have the mentality of "you screwed up, deal with it" forced upon them by men who never have to make as much commitment as mothers do. It is really just a form of birth control, albiet the worst kind. Besides, as I know servant corps, you are a Muslim and doesn't the Quran say that the fetus doesn't have a soul until four months into pregnancy? Therefore, a fetus is only human four months in, not before.

I believe it's the Hadith (sayings of the Prophet), not the Quran, that says that (altough I could be wrong). The Quran also states that killing your childern based on fear of poverty is still bad.

I just said that as a counter. To me, the argument is over if the fetus should be considered as a human, and not over 'women's rights'. I'm going to stay netural in this argument though, if only because:
1) I don't want to be wrong.
2) If someone has to abort, they can consult people who are more learned than I am to figure out if it is moral or not.

There.

[Siquo]

Wow.

Just wow.

I just saw humility on the internet. 

Thank you, SC, for redeeming mankind's presence.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Just in case: I'm not being sarcastic. Sarcasm is a fear of honesty.

[Jude]

Tbh abortion is a lot better than what goes on in "primitive" society when a woman knows she can't take care of a kid, which is just killing the kid.

still goes on here I guess too with dumpster babies and such. If given a choice I'd rather have babies be aborted than end up dying in dumpsters.

Either way though, people who are against abortion need to realize Roe v. Wade is never going to be overturned and instead start supporting measures that will reduce the number of potential abortions such as sex ed, availability of birth control and info about it, and offer to adopt a damn unwanted baby themself instead of whining about it

Sarcasm is a fear of honesty.

Huh?

[Cthulhu]

The sex ed I took in eighth grade I thought was on the mark.  It stressed abstinence until marriage, but accepted that many will do it anyway, and provided information on birth control.

It also showed a slideshow that  caused one student to become physically ill, and made almost everyone else turn their heads.

[Jude]

Sex ed can include scare pics of STDs and so on but if it doesn't teach people how to use birth control and protect against diseases, it's not worth shit, because teenagers have always banged each other, and always will bang each other, and trying to deny that is like trying to deny the earth is older than 6000

oh wait

[deadlycairn]

What about adoption? People always seem to consider the options of abortion or keep the baby yourself, and adoption is sidelined/ignored.

[mainiac]

What about adoption? People always seem to consider the options of abortion or keep the baby yourself, and adoption is sidelined/ignored.

50,000 kids are adopted a year in the US
800,000 abortions are done a year in the US (480,000 of those in the first 8 weeks, less then 12,000 of those in the last trimester)
100,000 kids are awaiting adoption inside the US
Millions of children worldwide are awaiting adoption

The adoption option isn't ignored.  We'd all love if there was a home for every child.  But the number of people willing and capable of adopting would only put a small dent in the number of abortions.  And there's no shortage of children looking for homes as it is.  The story portrayed in Juno, where the young mother finds to maturity to give birth and finds a loving foster parent is very nice.  But it's a tiny, tiny subset of reality and we can't ignore the larger picture.  And honestly, I have to question the morality of seeking to increase the number of babies put up for adoption when there are already so many waiting.  Is it moral to prevent an abortion in america and have that child go up for adoption if that means a child in the 3rd world is not adopted and lives in poverty or even dies?  Beyond all else, I think these dilemias show why availability and acceptance of birth control is a moral imperative.  But faced with the dilemia, I would suggest that it's better for a young mother to abort in the first eight weeks, terminating a life that is in no way concious, if that saves her the enormous burden of a pregnancy she can't handle and gives another child a better life.

Often, conservative politicians cite adoption, claiming how it is better then abortion.  But I personally believe their stance to be morally repungant.  If we, as a society, are to dictate that abortion is unacceptable because adoption exists, then we damn well better support adoption.  But getting the US government to declare that social welfare is a state responsibility is like trying to squeeze water from the heart of a stone.  And it is the same politicians who trumpet the sanctity of human life who deny the funding that would be needed.

Show me a billion dollars a year for maternity support (pregnancy both an enormous expense and hardship, even without parenthood.) and 14,000 couples who'd adopt the children each year before you suggest that adoption is a replacement for even 3rd trimester abortion, let alone all abortion.

[deadlycairn]

Damn, I had no idea about those facts. I semi-support abortion, I realise that sometimes there is no other alternative to it, but I wish there were more alternatives.

Also, I've never watched Juno.