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[Grax]

I don't see the difference between crystal glass, and clear glass...

Crystal glass - http://wines.at-top.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/crystal-glass.jpg
Clear glass flasks - http://www.baharris.org/images/MosesBottles/1935_Pt_Liq_Ball_Clear.jpg
Green glass - http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/catalog/get_file.php/nav/product/zoom_5605000.jpg

[MrWiggles]

Teckno cancels lurk: Interrupted by question.

Is the new version planned to address any of the expoity stuff, like the atom smasher, or quantum stockpiling?

I for one would like my drawbridges to do something bit more bloody then smash stuff out of existence.

You can choose not to do them.

They probably havent been touched.

[G-Flex]

I don't see the difference between crystal glass, and clear glass...

Crystal glass - http://wines.at-top.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/crystal-glass.jpg
Clear glass flasks - http://www.baharris.org/images/MosesBottles/1935_Pt_Liq_Ball_Clear.jpg
Green glass - http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/catalog/get_file.php/nav/product/zoom_5605000.jpg

Nope.

"Crystal glass" in DF is not the same as what you'd call "crystal glass" in the real world.

Yeah, this is confusing, and kind of silly, but that's just how it is at the moment.

In the real world, "crystal glass" generally refers to lead crystal glass, which is glass that has lead impurities added, to make it nice and shimmery.

In DF, the difference is that clear glass is made from sand, and crystal glass is made from rock crystal. You might say that this shouldn't create a significant difference in the finished product, and you'd have a point. I figure the difference is that rock crystal is simply much purer than any sand you're liable to find.

[Leotto]

I don't see the difference between crystal glass, and clear glass...

Crystal glass - http://wines.at-top.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/crystal-glass.jpg
Clear glass flasks - http://www.baharris.org/images/MosesBottles/1935_Pt_Liq_Ball_Clear.jpg
Green glass - http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/catalog/get_file.php/nav/product/zoom_5605000.jpg

Nope.

"Crystal glass" in DF is not the same as what you'd call "crystal glass" in the real world.

Yeah, this is confusing, and kind of silly, but that's just how it is at the moment.

In the real world, "crystal glass" generally refers to lead crystal glass, which is glass that has lead impurities added, to make it nice and shimmery.

In DF, the difference is that clear glass is made from sand, and crystal glass is made from rock crystal. You might say that this shouldn't create a significant difference in the finished product, and you'd have a point. I figure the difference is that rock crystal is simply much purer than any sand you're liable to find.

Clear Glass requires ash, Crystal Glass doesn't.
Clear Glass is made from sand(∞), Crystal Glass is made from Rock Crystal(limited).

But can you make all the same stuff out of both?

[Grax]

I don't see the difference between crystal glass, and clear glass...

Crystal glass - http://wines.at-top.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/crystal-glass.jpg
Clear glass flasks - http://www.baharris.org/images/MosesBottles/1935_Pt_Liq_Ball_Clear.jpg
Green glass - http://www.tenthousandvillages.com/catalog/get_file.php/nav/product/zoom_5605000.jpg

Nope.

"Crystal glass" in DF is not the same as what you'd call "crystal glass" in the real world.

Yeah, this is confusing, and kind of silly, but that's just how it is at the moment.

In the real world, "crystal glass" generally refers to lead crystal glass, which is glass that has lead impurities added, to make it nice and shimmery.

In DF, the difference is that clear glass is made from sand, and crystal glass is made from rock crystal. You might say that this shouldn't create a significant difference in the finished product, and you'd have a point. I figure the difference is that rock crystal is simply much purer than any sand you're liable to find.

If the crystal glass is just the pure glass, so it can be cast from quartz which forms a whole layers in DF.

But in case of reflecting DF to real world chemical processes, green glass is the crude mix of different metallic (mostly calcium) oxides plus silicon oxide. Green color origins from ferrum oxide in the mix.
Clear glass is the pure alloy of silicon oxide with sodium and/or potassium.
And crystal glass is the [quartz glass in real world and made of] pure silicon oxide (refined mostly from quartz sand or silica).

So in DF rock crystal is chemically equal to amethyst, citrines, and other quartzes. But they can't be used in glass process.

[G-Flex]

Relatively-pure quartz simply does not form whole layers in DF. Silicate minerals do, but none pure enough to make glass at all, never mind as pure as rock crystal.


And yes, there are plenty of other varieties of quartz, but they have color for a reason; they're much more impure than rock crystal is. If they were chemically-identical, after all, they'd have the same color.

[Grax]

Relatively-pure quartz simply does not form whole layers in DF. Silicate minerals do, but none pure enough to make glass at all, never mind as pure as rock crystal.

And sand of different colors and structure gives all the green glass. Great.

And yes, there are plenty of other varieties of quartz, but they have color for a reason; they're much more impure than rock crystal is.

"Much more" means addition of somewhere about 0.001% of rutile, aluminum or pitchblende. ;-)

If they were chemically-identical, after all, they'd have the same color.

Ahaha. Tell this to graphite and diamonds.

[praguepride]

Ahaha. Tell this to graphite and diamonds.

Ouch, chemical burn! 

[G-Flex]

And sand of different colors and structure gives all the green glass. Great.

The fact that you can use basically any sand for glass is a bit of a concession the game makes, yeah. Ideally, you'd probably want to stick to white glass.

"Much more" means addition of somewhere about 0.001% of rutile, aluminum or pitchblende. ;-)

0.001%? That number sounds remarkably low; do you have a source for it? Not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just curious. I've been trying to find numbers but have been unable.

If they were chemically-identical, after all, they'd have the same color.

Ahaha. Tell this to graphite and diamonds.

You have a point (although if you want to get pedantic, diamond and carbon aren't chemically identical; the bonds are different. But the fact that they're both elemental forms of carbon is good enough for your point). In the case of quartz varieties though, I'm pretty sure the difference in coloration is due to impurities. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Yes, it's due to impurities - just open the Wiki page on Quartz. The exact amount of impurities isn't listed there though.

[G-Flex]

To be honest, crystal glass in DF always has struck me as odd, simply because I'm not sure if the relative purity of the rock crystal should even really make such a difference. I think we'd be better off being able to make stained/colored glass, lead crystal glass, and that sort of thing. There are a ton of ways you can make glass look pretty, after all.

[Grax]

And sand of different colors and structure gives all the green glass. Great.

The fact that you can use basically any sand for glass is a bit of a concession the game makes, yeah. Ideally, you'd probably want to stick to white glass.

I'd like to stick to clay ceramics. It's more useful and easy in work. ;-)

"Much more" means addition of somewhere about 0.001% of rutile, aluminum or pitchblende. ;-)

0.001%? That number sounds remarkably low; do you have a source for it?

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgeg.chem.usu.ru%2Ftagil_museum%2Fnei%2Fgeolog%2Fametist%2Ftema1.htm&sl=ru&tl=en

So look at the last paragraph there:
As shown in Table 6, five-hundredths percent Al 2 O 3 in all samples of rock crystal far exceeds the amount of Fe 2 O 3 (or, respectively, Fe) in many samples of intensely colored quartz: their presence much smaller quantities of Al 2 O 3 (than 0,05%) is characteristic of dark smoke rauchtopaz, and the amount of 0,005% Fe 2 O 3 is found among the samples is quite noticeably colored purple amethysts.

You have a point (although if you want to get pedantic, diamond and carbon aren't chemically identical; the bonds are different.

Bonds are physics already. ;-)
Isomeres are chemistry.

But the fact that they're both elemental forms of carbon is good enough for your point). In the case of quartz varieties though, I'm pretty sure the difference in coloration is due to impurities. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, of course. But the impurities sometimes are so exiguous that the amethyst becomes clearly transparent after some years under direct sunlight. And disappear at all when it comes to glass melting temperatures (alike 1000°C).

[G-Flex]

By "the bonds are different" I meant their placement/structure/number/type, which... is pretty clearly related to isomers/allotropes of a given element.


From what you're saying, it seems like the assumption that rock crystal is especially pure is wrong to begin with, which is interesting. "Rock crystal is ridiculously pure" was basically the only possible explanation for DF's "crystal glass" I could come up with myself, as I have no idea what other distinction could be made about it. I suppose it might still be purer than white glassmaking sand, but again, I'm not sure how significant this is.

[Doomshifter]

Hey, I've always wanted to know.

Do you guys think that Legendary Wrestlers pull of Fist of the North Star style crap from time to time? Like, they just punch people and watch them explode? I'd love to see randomised martial arts (Like, *RNG name*, martial art based on *bodypart*) made in worldgen.

(Bonus points if you can guess what I'm watching.)

[Neruz]

I turned my Dwarves punches into doing Gore damage awhile back because it was hilarious to watch my Ledgendary Wrestlers punch enemies and cause them to explode violently.