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[wobbly]

Re shortblades: my least favourite too, but situationally good. The above kobold found the +5 protection sword (in pack) early & it seemed to take minimal investment (with kobold proficiencies) to get good. My current run (also kobold) found a vampiric rapier just before reaching the lair. With heroism it reaches minimum delay without much investment & a quick vampiric in lair is making it a cakewalk even for a kobold fighter. Just heal, heal, heal..

Re confusing touch: Thought that only worked with the main hand empty? Or are you talking about just removing the shortsword when you want to use it?

[quinnr]

General question for people who start Fighter and intend to move to two-hands: if you aren't intending to train shields past the base stats, is a buckler more effective than a shield? Should I drop my starter shield for the first buckler I find or is there more that goes into the calculations than the XP?

[wobbly]

Not an expert so curious what more experienced players say, but bucklers seem poor at shields best advantage (missile fire). I'd use a full shield unless: artifact buckler, caster, small (hobbit, kobold etc. ), a form of reflection etc.
I'd also use a bigger shield if I had heroism spiking the skill or the bound gods skill bonus.

[FakerFangirl]

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Shields#Shield_Penalties Buckler is good if you've mastered it. Shield is better if you've almost mastered it. By the time you find centaurs you'll want to be have over 9 SH. I agree with wobbly.

[Tegga21]

Not an expert so curious what more experienced players say, but bucklers seem poor at shields best advantage (missile fire). I'd use a full shield unless: artifact buckler, caster, small (hobbit, kobold etc. ), a form of reflection etc.
I'd also use a bigger shield if I had heroism spiking the skill or the bound gods skill bonus.

Shields block melee not just ranged.  Using a full shield before having all the skill has a penaltry to attack speed and casting %, lowering as you get close to the required skill level.

For most races this is 5/15/25 for buckler/shield/large
for large and two handed its 0/9/15
for tiny its higher.

[ZeroGravitas]

General question for people who start Fighter and intend to move to two-hands: if you aren't intending to train shields past the base stats, is a buckler more effective than a shield? Should I drop my starter shield for the first buckler I find or is there more that goes into the calculations than the XP?

All the advice I have ever read is to ditch your starting shield if you're starting as a Fighter, even if you intend to stay 1h, because the penalties are too high at your starting skill level/stats.

But that might have changed in the past couple years.

[Tegga21]

General question for people who start Fighter and intend to move to two-hands: if you aren't intending to train shields past the base stats, is a buckler more effective than a shield? Should I drop my starter shield for the first buckler I find or is there more that goes into the calculations than the XP?

All the advice I have ever read is to ditch your starting shield if you're starting as a Fighter, even if you intend to stay 1h, because the penalties are too high at your starting skill level/stats.

But that might have changed in the past couple years.

If you start as a large race or a +2 to shields race its not necessary, also if you train at 25% into shields it not necessary; if neither of those are true you probably want to put it aside until you reach 8-9 skill or 10+ weapon skill(since it slows your attack speed)

[ZeroGravitas]

General question for people who start Fighter and intend to move to two-hands: if you aren't intending to train shields past the base stats, is a buckler more effective than a shield? Should I drop my starter shield for the first buckler I find or is there more that goes into the calculations than the XP?

All the advice I have ever read is to ditch your starting shield if you're starting as a Fighter, even if you intend to stay 1h, because the penalties are too high at your starting skill level/stats.

But that might have changed in the past couple years.

If you start as a large race or a +2 to shields race its not necessary, also if you train at 25% into shields it not necessary; if neither of those are true you probably want to put it aside until you reach 8-9 skill or 10+ weapon skill(since it slows your attack speed)

Yeah. As always there are lots of exceptions.

I used to play lots of Fighters when I was learning the game; then I discovered that Gladiators were actually better, because Gladiators started with a Buckler instead of a shield. I think Gladiators were shortly thereafter nerfed to remove Bucklers. Ironically I think my first win was MDGl (with Buckler), so literally something that doesn't exist anymore (I mean of course MDs don't exist at all anymore, but neither do Gls with starting Bucklers).

[FakerFangirl]

Bai Bai Suzhen 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: I beat my last tournament score already. http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.21/players/windshieldviper.html

[Mathel]

You know, when you consider that both having your ghost kill someone and killing a ghost is worth 2 team points, one would expect that you would not meet ghosts of yourself and your teammates. That would just be 2 points to the team wheter you kill the ghost or it kills you. Yet:

Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

Also, congratulations, FakerFangirl, for your 100% success rating.

[quinnr]

Anyone have some advice for playing Beogh worshipers? I just tried for the first time and had a lot of fun, I cleared out the entire dungeon, then orc, then all of lair, but died on the second floor of Spider Nest as I had no rPois and I was afraid to do Shoals. My main issue is that I originally thought that I'd have a steady supply of orcs for forever after doing the main dungeon, but then all the non-named orcs died very quickly, leaving me with only 3 (albeit strong followers). They died to a nest in the spider nest though, leaving me to die alone. How can I keep the huge army alive?

[HammerDave]

Anyone have some advice for playing Beogh worshipers? I just tried for the first time and had a lot of fun, I cleared out the entire dungeon, then orc, then all of lair, but died on the second floor of Spider Nest as I had no rPois and I was afraid to do Shoals. My main issue is that I originally thought that I'd have a steady supply of orcs for forever after doing the main dungeon, but then all the non-named orcs died very quickly, leaving me with only 3 (albeit strong followers). They died to a nest in the spider nest though, leaving me to die alone. How can I keep the huge army alive?

Hmm, that's probably going to be an unintended downside of taking out random spawns.  Or perhaps intended, the devs seem to thrive on curveballs.   
Makes me think that it's preferable to alternate orc and lair branches, and hold off clearing lower D levels, to keep up the flow of followers.
Alternatively if you can ditch Beogh after the supply of orcs dries up and survive any retribution, another god might be more helpful for later game.

Take that with a vein or two of rock salt though, my top XL is only about 17.   

[HammerDave]

Oh this isn't the tournament thread.
If you love DCSS and haven't signed up for a Bay12 team, check the tournament thread!

[Sarrak]

Anyone have some advice for playing Beogh worshipers? I just tried for the first time and had a lot of fun, I cleared out the entire dungeon, then orc, then all of lair, but died on the second floor of Spider Nest as I had no rPois and I was afraid to do Shoals. My main issue is that I originally thought that I'd have a steady supply of orcs for forever after doing the main dungeon, but then all the non-named orcs died very quickly, leaving me with only 3 (albeit strong followers). They died to a nest in the spider nest though, leaving me to die alone. How can I keep the huge army alive?

As the guy who loves beoghites, some advice:

1) Orcs are expendable, priests and wizards - doubly so (their level-ups, high priests and sorcerers, sound good on paper, but are trash to properly maintain, especially later on). Warriors and knights are where this starts to get sweet, so train them and do not let them die fast
[Orcs get (half of?) all exp you've earned, you lose no exp if orcs kills stuff; orc summons do tap into exp pool; Beogh gifts are directed by who killer was (you = random orc gets stuff)]
2) You will not keep your horde forever. It inevitably dips in numbers, but I usually manage to grind from 10-14 knights into 4-8 warlords. And warlords are VERY resilient. They also hit like trucks
3) Unless you play spellcaster, take axe, shield, good armor, resists - and TANK. By the lair, you'll giggle in delight at how easily knights despatch enemies swarming at you. Be mindful later on, though - it is more reasonable to gank up on a few enemies at Depths and onwards

Rules of Orc Jesus:
1) Keep your apostles close, recalling is cheap - Tele+Recall is good escape if not in Tomb/Vaults:5
2) Let your apostles rest their wounds until somewhat healthy
3) Avoid confusion, beware of poison, fuck torment and rot ("mishappen" malmutations are cured with exp, but rot? Nope)
4) Never take death hits instead of your apostles - they are resurrectable, you are not

Spoiler: Branches to be aware of (click to show/hide)

Snake - venomancers and their mass poison, electric snakes, massive horde at the end
Shoals - just do not let your orcs wander off your sight to be poisoned or pelted by fawns. Take end without rushing
Spider - rPoison a must, do not let orcs take many hits, emperor scorpions are damn hard
SWAMP - poison clouds, confusion clouds... learn to shout "Retreat!" and you'll do well
ELF - end vault if HELL for Beoghite. Just take the fight away from it (amass orcs close by, tell them to wait, get elves to follow you). Banishment IS final death for orcs. Even warlords are prone to it. Elves love to destroy corpses. Elves love elemental attacks. Fuck elves.

Depths - assuming you take on abovementioned things, it is normal, but somewhat different. Hordes of enemies can actually wear you down here
Vaults:5 - tell orcs wait at 4 stairs, stairdance enemies to death, use Tele+Recall as needed. Quite fun, but can get into a pitch. MR+ stuff suggested
Zot - surprisingly, not TOO difficult. Just avoid big groups and too much elemental damage. Great source of Gold Dragon Armors

Hell - quite easy if you take care to stairdance and do not rush
TOMB - I got there, I cleaned it in earlier versions, it is NIGHTMARE. Orcs are nealy helpless, especially at Tomb:3. But they let you dispatch greater mummies real fast
SLIME - Everything wants to kill you and orcs have no good grasp on corrosion. Killing RJ is easy, surviving its death horde - not so much
HELLS - they are possible, if painful to do. Travel slightly afar from orcs (Hell effects are centered on you) and be aware of Tzimitls (rot), frequest torments and other fun stuff. Ereshkigal is easy, Dispater medium, Asmodeus painful (fire clouds in close space), Antaeus - doubly so (both layout and himself)
Pandemonium - kinda from easy to worst ever possible. Cerebov is dangerous, Lom Lobon - from easy to dangerous, others meh

P.S. The MOST awesome present any orc warlord may dream of is Gold Dragon Armor. It has rPois (the most awful things are poison or confusion clouds, fuck Swamp). It has both rC and rF (nearly a must for Hells, where Torments cut their 300-400HP into double digits). And Beogh is HAPPY to enchant it further
P.P.S. Orcs have 30~40% to leave their corpse behind. Resurrect the most badass and weaponized knights/warlords, just be mindful not to let them die in the first place

To Death-Seekers: no, gathering runes while on Orb Run is not funny for beoghite. Your apostles die pointlessly and this is heartbreaking

[Tegga21]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168786.45

our tournament dcss thread!