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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3131480 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32790 on: October 23, 2023, 08:28:31 am »

Fantasy genre eating good this season

-Helck. Premise: Legendary hero joins the demons to wipe out humanity. Actual: friendship and adventure
-Frieren. Premise: Elf mage raises an apprentice. Actual: an elf deals with the memories of being an immortal whilst her friends are not
-Goblin Slayer season 2. Premise: Ultradark sword and sorcery fantasy about killing goblins. Actual: Learning how to live after trauma and become a real adventuring party (and killing goblins).
-Faraway Paladin season 2. Highly recommend season 1 where it's a unique story about a kid raised by a bonelord, a wraith wizard and an undead mummy mommy. Season 2 premise is about the paladin learning how to be the mayor of a city. Actual: the plot to the hobbit, reclaiming a dwarf fortress.
-Dekoboko. I actually remember when this was first published as a one-off joke about "what if a tiny 200 year old witch adopted a little baby left in the woods and she grew into a large and imposing witch." Actual: the difficulties of being an only child/single mother... Made easier by everyone chipping in. It takes a village to raise a kid. I think there's a large number of people who can sympathise with the exact situation of "tiny single mother raises children who grow up way huger than her but she still spoils them"

Maximum™

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32791 on: October 23, 2023, 08:36:45 pm »

Let's kill all the humans!
*grin*
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scriver

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32792 on: October 24, 2023, 07:53:29 am »

Are they very "everything is a computer game/mmo"-ish? Has the epidemic of such on fantasy finally passed?
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Maximum™

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32793 on: October 24, 2023, 07:19:02 pm »

Helck isn't that at all.

Also while I was going back through older One Piece chapters since we've been casually watching it on Netflix in the background after finishing the first live action season, I busted out laughing over Luffy in Thriller Bark, where he sees a hand pop up, zombie climbing out of the grave, and he just walks over and pushes it back into the dirt. "No, none of this."
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heydude6

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32794 on: October 24, 2023, 08:42:35 pm »

Are they very "everything is a computer game/mmo"-ish? Has the epidemic of such on fantasy finally passed?

Helck is a traditional albeit comedic fantasy. From what I read of the manga it was pretty good although I haven't read very far (for manga standards). I should come back to it sometime.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32795 on: October 26, 2023, 04:24:03 am »

Are they very "everything is a computer game/mmo"-ish? Has the epidemic of such on fantasy finally passed?
It hasn't passed, but I hope "reborn as a vending machine" marked the zenith of the "I was a loser but I died whilst craking one out now I'm a level 1000 boss and the heir to GOD but also I'm skibidi toilet" genre. This season of anime has seen a pleasant revival of fantasy animes that are just fantasies. So no power levels, no class levels, no video game mechanics. The hero is just a hero, the elf is just an elf, the witch is just a witch, just as DragonQuest and Tolkein intended

Fantasy genre eating good this season

-Helck. Premise: Legendary hero joins the demons to wipe out humanity. Actual: friendship and adventure
-Frieren. Premise: Elf mage raises an apprentice. Actual: an elf deals with the memories of being an immortal whilst her friends are not
-Goblin Slayer season 2. Premise: Ultradark sword and sorcery fantasy about killing goblins. Actual: Learning how to live after trauma and become a real adventuring party (and killing goblins).
-Faraway Paladin season 2. Highly recommend season 1 where it's a unique story about a kid raised by a bonelord, a wraith wizard and an undead mummy mommy. Season 2 premise is about the paladin learning how to be the mayor of a city. Actual: the plot to the hobbit, reclaiming a dwarf fortress.
-Dekoboko. I actually remember when this was first published as a one-off joke about "what if a tiny 200 year old witch adopted a little baby left in the woods and she grew into a large and imposing witch." Actual: the difficulties of being an only child/single mother... Made easier by everyone chipping in. It takes a village to raise a kid. I think there's a large number of people who can sympathise with the exact situation of "tiny single mother raises children who grow up way huger than her but she still spoils them"
So all of these ones, no vidya game mechanics. I think Magna Crimson and Kingdom of Ruin also don't have vidya game isekai mechanic stuff though I haven't seen them. Undead Murder Farce came out last season and Heavenly Delusion came out at the start of the year but I still recommend anyone watch them if they haven't already as they're both 10/10 for originality and the dare to be weird. Undead Murder Farce = a severed head tours Victorian Europe solving mystery crimes. The tone is grey and the main characters are not bad people, but they're also not good people either. Loads of experimentation with art style and shots that are just really cool and tell the story well. Heavenly Delusion also dark tone, loads of weird mystery, great post apocalyptic setting.

There are a few video game isekai shows still coming out where it's all about ranks, levels and high level abilities beating low level ones, "My daughter left the nest and came back an S rank hero." But notably even the isekais that have come out this season like Dead Mount Death Play S2 (a necromancer gets reincarnated into the regular world Japan) or Eminence in Shadow S2 (isekai parody) don't use video game mechanics. We've also seen a revival of the villainess isekai "I was a regular lady then I was reincarnated as the villainess who dies at the end of the game so now I need to metagame to survive." Loads of them devolve pretty quickly from the premise of being a villainess and becoming a straight normal heroine & love interest, but "I'm the Villainess so I'm taming the final boss" was surprisingly fun. The MC isn't a self-insert void of personality, right from the first episode they begin trampling over people and conniving to get what they want, culminating in them declaring to the demon lord that they plan to marry him out of purely selfish motives. Utterly hilarious

So yeah I hope this is a sign that the deluge is subsiding. But I think this might just be a brief reprieve as light novel adaptations of video game mechanic fantasies are very lucrative. But if shows like Spice and Wolf are getting rebooted then that may mean anime production studios believe stories about love & economics are profitable again
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 04:49:48 am by Loud Whispers »
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32796 on: October 26, 2023, 08:22:57 am »

I mean, give it a minute or two, because there's a pretty non-zero amount of stories about love and economics that also have video game mechanics. They just need time for someone to notice and adapt them :V
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Loud Whispers

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32797 on: October 26, 2023, 11:44:36 am »

I mean, give it a minute or two, because there's a pretty non-zero amount of stories about love and economics that also have video game mechanics. They just need time for someone to notice and adapt them :V
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32798 on: October 26, 2023, 04:09:59 pm »

You shouldn't tease people like that, blech. I checked and that title sadly does not seem to exist. I'd totes read it if it got long enough to take at least a few hours to read.

It is kinda' adjacent to Dungeon Item Shop (sadly stubbed these days, and more witches than merchant-y things but it's there, too), tho', and there's several more with the general conceit.

Though, if I had to guess for stuff in that direction, maybe some of the litrpg crime boss stories might get anime'd? I'm aware of at least two western ones off the top of my head (godfather system and a steam/arcanopunk-y one I'm forgetting the title of), and there's a solid handful of japanese or chinese LN cruft in that direction I've ran into in passing. Might be neat.

Any case, I'm just sayin' there's no guarantee a shift towards stuff in spice and wolf's direction would actually mean escaping the litrpg curse blessing curse clurssing/blurse. We could see a spike in what amounts to Torneko fanfiction instead :V

... and, like. Hell. If you spat out a Torneko anime you'd probably have my attention. Someone should get on that, dragon quest spinoff anime, keep the boxes.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 04:11:45 pm by Frumple »
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MrRoboto75

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32799 on: October 26, 2023, 04:42:27 pm »

I've always found the isekai obsession really morbid.  Like everyone's fantasy is to get forcibly killed in an accident and the afterlife is just some place your skills and abilities deemed valueless by society suddenly have merit for once.
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32800 on: October 26, 2023, 05:41:50 pm »

Eh... plenty of them just yoink the person over, no death required, for what that's worth. In general, though, yeah, there's a very bleak foundation to a lot of isekai, especially when you consider how much of it is just that, suddenly having capability that is actually valued and substantial, people who care about you, and fairly often just eventually gaining some sort of basic stability to your life.

For what it's worth, it's not even remotely just an isekai thing -- there's a similar underpinning in most escapist fiction at a minimum, and a number of other sorts as well. Slice of life generally falls pretty hard into the same region of storytelling, so on, so forth.

That so much of mankind's media (it's also not even a little something new or unusual even among older media) is basically just the story of someone having a middingly okay life without unending trouble and stress says a lot.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32801 on: October 26, 2023, 06:53:02 pm »

Eh... plenty of them just yoink the person over, no death required, for what that's worth.

Before or after truck-based psychopompy became the meme mocking isekai as a whole?

For what it's worth, it's not even remotely just an isekai thing -- there's a similar underpinning in most escapist fiction at a minimum, and a number of other sorts as well.
Sure, but rarely does it feel as, I dunno, blatant as it is in typical isekai?  Like it almost revels in how pathetic the protag used to be in the real world versus fantasy land.  "Elves HATE him!  Pathetic hikikomori discovers this one weird trick that helps them rule middle-earth." (The secret is he played an MMO three times)
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Egan_BW

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32802 on: October 26, 2023, 06:54:54 pm »

Not nearly as fun as the ones where people get yoinked into a terrible place where they die horribly due to having no applicable skills. You can imagine that the afterlife is just an unending chain of such environments.
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32803 on: October 26, 2023, 07:21:15 pm »

Before or after truck-based psychopompy became the meme mocking isekai as a whole?
Both! Most older historical isekai/portal fantasy stuff didn't involve the perspective character(s) dying (it's one of the reasons portal fantasy is by and large the old term for that style of fiction, heh), and even since truck-kun was popularized, random summoning or weird portals or whatever is still plenty common. Reincarnation fantasy as a popularized thing is pretty new, from what I understand, and isekai's broader narrative beats predates it rather substantially.

Quote
Sure, but rarely does it feel as, I dunno, blatant as it is in typical isekai?  Like it almost revels in how pathetic the protag used to be in the real world versus fantasy land.  "Elves HATE him!  Pathetic hikikomori discovers this one weird trick that helps them rule middle-earth." (The secret is he played an MMO three times)
Eh, maybe? That kind of thing isn't uncommon with fantasy in general, though (frikkin' hell, many tellings of the legend of king authur is basically that, just as an example!), and low-point to high-point as a narrative framework is quite common in all sorts of genres. Isekai might be worse on some level, but I don't think it's by much, and quite a lot of it (... outside the stuff that gets anime adaptations, anyway :P) doesn't fit into that framework anyway.

The pointed thing I've noticed is that kind of heaped on shitty life framing is pretty common these days among the general LN et al ecosystem outside of isekai, too. All sorts of non-isekai fiction in that area has similar starting beats, from xianxia to various sorts of power fantasy to romance to domestic fiction to, just... all of it. I think the sort of blatantness you're seeing absolutely exists, it's just more pervasive than one might think.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #32804 on: October 27, 2023, 07:09:22 am »

You shouldn't tease people like that, blech. I checked and that title sadly does not seem to exist. I'd totes read it if it got long enough to take at least a few hours to read.
Honestly know that feel. I remember reading the one where guy got turned into a tree and it was just 60 chapters of "tree gains new power but faces new foe who forces him to develop new power but suddenly an even bigger foe appears." Still ended up reading all of the chapters. It's like the LN equivalent of having 4,000 hours in a game and leaving a review "I hate this game"

Any case, I'm just sayin' there's no guarantee a shift towards stuff in spice and wolf's direction would actually mean escaping the litrpg curse blessing curse clurssing/blurse. We could see a spike in what amounts to Torneko fanfiction instead :V

... and, like. Hell. If you spat out a Torneko anime you'd probably have my attention. Someone should get on that, dragon quest spinoff anime, keep the boxes.
Gib Torneko fanfic animes now

That so much of mankind's media (it's also not even a little something new or unusual even among older media) is basically just the story of someone having a middingly okay life without unending trouble and stress says a lot.
Yeah it's fairly common to a lot of genres. I think Isekai tend to stand out more because the transition between "I am an ordinary, mediocre loser" to "everyone loves me and I am all-powerful" is as sudden as getting hit by the isekai truck. But YA Novel of "Mary Sue was an ordinary girl... UNTIL SHE WASN'T, now she needs to lead the resistance" or the superhero story of "Jimmy was an ordinary boy until he touched the moebius strip, now he is Captain Moebius and it's Moebius time" are pretty common parallels of this.

Sure, but rarely does it feel as, I dunno, blatant as it is in typical isekai?  Like it almost revels in how pathetic the protag used to be in the real world versus fantasy land.  "Elves HATE him!  Pathetic hikikomori discovers this one weird trick that helps them rule middle-earth." (The secret is he played an MMO three times)
I would 100% read a stupid LOTR Isekai where an isekai hikkomori protag neet styles on Sauron's armies at the battle of Dale using his SASUGA SUGOI knowledge of RPGs and RTSs. Or fuck it, Saruman receives a neet who advises him on how to make Isengard a power to rival Mordor and the last alliance

Eh, maybe? That kind of thing isn't uncommon with fantasy in general, though (frikkin' hell, many tellings of the legend of king authur is basically that, just as an example!), and low-point to high-point as a narrative framework is quite common in all sorts of genres. Isekai might be worse on some level, but I don't think it's by much, and quite a lot of it (... outside the stuff that gets anime adaptations, anyway :P) doesn't fit into that framework anyway.
I think Arthurian canon also has the first true "isekai" as we would know it. A Conneticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court was published in 1889 and features a rugged American boy getting transported back to King Arthur's land after getting hit with an isekai crowbar where he uses his knowledge of industrial capitalism, firearms and democracy to change the world™ and get everyone to love him

Not nearly as fun as the ones where people get yoinked into a terrible place where they die horribly due to having no applicable skills. You can imagine that the afterlife is just an unending chain of such environments.
I remember reading one funny comic panel where the protag gets isekai'd and plans to revolutionise the world with their knowledge of electronics, chemistry and physics. Then they remember they don't know anything about any of those.

Subaru from Re;Zero is a pretty cool exception. For starters he wasn't hit by the isekai truck, he was just abducted. He has a loving family, and to them he just disappeared. He latches onto the first person to show him kindness to an unhealthy degree, professing to make them the centre of the world and fulfil all of her dreams. I remember a lot of my friends stopped watching at this point because they were all "lol simp" but:

Spoiler: major spoilers (click to show/hide)

That's why I think it sucks that all of my friends dropped Re;Zero because they wrote the MC off as a wet-blanket harem self-insert. There was way more going on with this char
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 07:26:37 am by Loud Whispers »
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