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[Reelya]

It just seems like a criticism that can be tailored to anything. it's either too narrowly targeted or too broadly targeted. tries to appeal to too many demographics, or not enough. so it's pretty meaningless at the end of they day.

[Neonivek]

It just seems like a criticism that can be tailored to anything. it's either too narrowly targeted or too broadly targeted. tries to appeal to too many demographics, or not enough. so it's pretty meaningless at the end of they day.

The issue isn't that it is trying to hard or too little or too narrow or too broadly to be popular.

The issue is that when you watch it, it feels like they made it will a checklist of popular things and ensured that their anime would have all of them without ensuring that they occur naturally through the narrative/world/period.

It feels artificial, like something constructed to be popular rather then something that became popular because it is relatable and good.

It basically targets the demographics it wants, and could reasonable have, and panders panders and panders some more.

The ONLY reason I can't say that is what happens FOR SURE is because of the "Fantasy Dream Land" Aspect of the anime. It feels like a place where these things could happen.

The anime is like a cross between Bratz/MonsterHigh/EverAfterHigh and Fineas and Ferb in terms of how it treats its audience. It is so between them I honestly don't know.

[Parsely]

Do these shows with laser-targeted demographics actually please anyone at all? I don't understand how something so worthless and awful could appeal to anybody ever.

Neonivek didn't outright say it's "worthless and awful". This is Neonivek remember. Most of his complaints are about what it didn't have rather than what it did: comparing it to some non-existent show that theoretically could have been better. You could do that for any show on Earth.

Wait what? No that didn't have anything to do with what Neon was talking about, I wasn't talking about Dog Day, it was a general criticism at.. I dunno what I'd call it. But stuff like the manga I read earlier.

E: Also hey I'm watching Pyscho Pass. Pretty good so far. The brain scan dealio is very Minority Report. "Pre-Crime" and all that.

[Flying Dice]

Wouldn't something with "laser-targeted demographic appeal" only be aimed at a relatively small segment of the population? That's not really the same thing as being intended to appeal to the lowest common denominator, you know. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite. Like, say, Claymore as opposed to Naruto, or... &c.

[Parsely]

It was a figure of speech. Rather I meant that it was targeted specifically at a certain demographic, because lasers are precise, and- And- Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  whatamIsayinnnnnggggggggggggg>_> >_> >_> >_> *grabs face*

[Flying Dice]

You could maybe describe it as Macross Missile Massacre demographic appeal, because the show's shooting off bits of appeal in a bunch of different directions, and it all ends up as one big, messy explosion of stuff.

[Parsely]

I can't believe how huge a huge misunderstanding came about from what I said.

[Flying Dice]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm mostly taking the piss because I don't really think that demographic appeal, intentionally evoked or otherwise, actually has a tremendous amount of influence on the quality of something. Except stuff that's intended to be sexually titillating (a la Highschool of the Dead), because that particular road almost invariably sacrifices the quality of everything else for the sake of still being worse at its goal than porn.

Even then, though, you can actually get something decent out of what should by all rights be smut (just look at the Rosario+Vampire manga, especially the second part), and when it's aiming for less exclusive tropes you can get something pretty damned great even from things that are clearly intended to do nothing more than be really good at pushing a specific set of buttons (see: Azumanga Daioh, Death Note, &c.) to dispense certain types of enjoyment.

Personally, I try to avoid that sort of medium deconstruction, because seeing things in terms of demographic appeal leads to cynicism and negativity about everything much more easily than seeing things in terms of tropes. Yeah, you can go, "Well this was clearly just tailored to appeal to groups X, Y, and Z," but in the long run it seems both more fulfilling and more useful to analyze a show based on its actual qualities rather than on your perceptions of the author/studio's target audience. That's not to say that you can't also look at it from the direction of "These are the people who, generally speaking, like Thing A. Why do they like it?", but audience-driven criticism is a different animal and has fewer implied assumptions about the audience, in a strange twist.

[Neonivek]

There is nothing wrong with making things with the intent that people will like it.

It is only when pandering comes at the expense of quality that it becomes an issue.

Some animes can pull off outright pandering and make it good. While others can't integrate it into the anime and thus force it in (Ghost in a Shell's butt shots for example)

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, but what I'm saying is that ultimately stuff like that is bad because it's poorly executed or whatever, not because they did it to attract perverts, it's always the perverts a given audience.

[Reelya]

Perverts discerning viewers cough up more money for uncensored DVD/BDs. It's the power of the wallet in action.

[Flying Dice]

That's the thing, though. A given show isn't bad because it's appealing to perverts the least of us, but because it does so in a way which ruins it for anyone who isn't a pervert. Granted, I'd guesstimate that overzealous application of fanservice is approximately 246% more likely to shit up a show than any other sort of demographic appeal, so I think it's justifiable to discuss things in these terms for this specific set of circumstances.

[Parsely]

That's the thing, though. A given show isn't bad because it's appealing to perverts the least of us, but because it does so in a way which ruins it for anyone who isn't a pervert. Granted, I'd guesstimate that overzealous application of fanservice is approximately 246% more likely to shit up a show than any other sort of demographic appeal, so I think it's justifiable to discuss things in these terms for this specific set of circumstances.

That's what I was trying to say. Does anyone actually watch something like Highschool of the Dead because of the fanservice? I just don't understand why that's done, at all.

[Neonivek]

Besides the anime that disappointed me the most because it wasn't about what I was hoping it was... was Peach Girl (with Familiar of Zero not being first but unlike Peach Girl it actually sets up plot points that it never explores)

Which I watched because the description made it seem like it was about a girl who is stigmatized because of prejudice and the story about how she overcomes it.

DEAR GOODNESS what that not even close to what happens. Overcome NOTHING! she is a insecure coward from episode 1 to the final episode with the most tepid romance I ever seen. It gave me a few surprises here and there (for example the villain played Peach Girl like a fiddle at first. It was actually really impressive. Peach Girl didn't expect that the villain would take advantage of her biggest weakness... her talking smack about her behind her back).

The description was intentionally set up to be deceptive. I watched it mostly because it takes a LOT to make me stop watching a series.

Familiar of Zero, however, does get honorable mention for at least establishing all the interesting plot points and then focusing on sexy abuse instead.

That's the thing, though. A given show isn't bad because it's appealing to perverts the least of us, but because it does so in a way which ruins it for anyone who isn't a pervert. Granted, I'd guesstimate that overzealous application of fanservice is approximately 246% more likely to shit up a show than any other sort of demographic appeal, so I think it's justifiable to discuss things in these terms for this specific set of circumstances.

That's what I was trying to say. Does anyone actually watch something like Highschool of the Dead because of the fanservice? I just don't understand why that's done, at all.

It is what I call sexual shock.

Sexuality in a disturbing scene can be very effective.

THAT and yes people do watch highschool of the dead with lust in their eyes.

[Flying Dice]

You know something that HSotD did that was actually pretty remarkable? It had a chubby, sorta-crazy otaku character who was not only a central protagonist, but was a certifiable badass, ended up in a loving relationship (for a certain definition of loving -- hey, she was a rich, bossy girl with pink hair, but she ain't no Louise, thank goodness) with someone who wasn't basically a genderswapped double of him (Hi there, Genesis of Aquarion!), and became part of the "heart" of the team rather than a satellite character.

You know what else it did? It had equal opportunity badassery; even the useless panicky school nurse was a crazy-good driver. The whacko far-right rich neofeudalists actually stand by their principles and risk their lives defending the people they see as 'theirs'. Bad things happen to good people, but it doesn't descend into grimderp. It had pretty cool, highly dynamic fight scenes.

And then you remember that the other 75% of the series was composed of discretion shots, breast physics, bath scenes, wet clothes, and assorted miscellaneous fanservice. What a fucking waste of a premise.