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[Creaca]

Lelouch is unquestionably Chaotic. Being lawful on the DnD scale requires you either: follow the law, follow a strong moral code that guides your actions, and/or be absolutely true to your word at all times. And to do the things above even when it isn't beneficial for you to do so.

[Leafsnail]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't lawfulness also include a kindof crusading element?  Or something like that.

Suzaku wants to be Lawful Good, but his actions just keep me from seeing him as good.

Well, if he wants to be, doesn't that end up making his motivations good after all?

[Neruz]

Yeah, the DnD is a little cliche and has some flaws. If you want a ~perfect~ Alignment system you'll want this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And before anyone asks. No they don't represent Alignments, they ~are~ the Alignments.

For instance, I'd peg Lelouche as a Batman and Sukaku as a Raynor-Taft

If you treat the law\chaos + good\evil axis as a continuous scale, rather than discrete points, and remember that in this context 'good' means 'helps others' and 'evil' means 'selfish\harms others' then it actually works really well.

Then why not just use the DnD 4.0 alignment scale? It's a strait line from Lawful good to Chaotic Evil. With Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral and Chaotic Neutral and Lawful Evil all taken out of the mix.

Because Chaotic Good, Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral and Lawful Evil are all viable alignments.

Also, they removed True Neutral as well, Unaligned is exactly that; no alignment, the main reason for this is because a discrete system really doesn't work all that well, and most people forgot that characters change alignment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't lawfulness also include a kindof crusading element?  Or something like that.

Lawful can be any of the following;

Respect for rules as laid down by a lawful entity (government etc)
Strong moral code
Imposing your will upon others if you have a lawful right to do so
Letting others impose their will upon you if they have a lawful right to do so
Trustworthy
Organised
Loyal

[Creaca]

What do you mean by "Crusading"? If your talking about fighting evil, that would be more along the lines of Good. People like to think that Lawful translates as "More Good", but just being lawful doesn't mean you aren't capable of tremendous acts of evil.

For instance, you have the Devil's of the DnD universe. A Lawful Evil force that involves rigid hierarchy, a cut throat system of "Promotions" that allow Demons to rise up the ladder through the number of souls they take and finding loopholes in the system to quickly move up. They take souls through deals with mortals via contracts that always have a hidden clause that allows the demon to come out on top.

Being Loyal or Trustworthy fall more under Lawful Good. Lawful evil explores the ways strict laws can do more harm than good.

[Leafsnail]

I suppose defining these in rigid terms doesn't work very well.

Hmm... sometimes good characters can develop a form of "Ends justify the means" complex, as well as possibly an "All who oppose me are evil!" one too.  Although this doesn't necessarily make them evil.  Perhaps.

Hmm, another possible definition.  If you're lawful, you, to some extent, trust some kind of system to help achieve your aims.  If you're chaotic, you feel you can do better, and you're on your own.

[Micro102]

Now i think the term "the end justifies the means" is not looked at correctly...I usually heard it in a bad way, as in when someone kills millions of people for a "brighter tomorrow" but how does that justify it?

It just circles back to "what i think is right is right"

[Neruz]

Hmm... sometimes good characters can develop a form of "Ends justify the means" complex, as well as possibly an "All who oppose me are evil!" one too.  Although this doesn't necessarily make them evil.  Perhaps.

This is an example of alignment slide. The character is still good, but less good.


Chaotic can be anything from refusing to let others impose their will upon you, refusing to impose your will upon others, to unreliable and untrustworthy to actively seeking to destroy organisation.

[Creaca]

If you're killing or otherwise injuring innocent people even in the hopes of stopping a greater evil, it still doesn't count as good.

For instance, if a Lawful Good Paladin was forced to choose between killing a child or letting 1000 people die. He would ~always~ choose to try and save the child, and the people.

[Realmfighter]

You can't just set definitions of good and evil, as they change from person to person.

[Creaca]

You can't just set definitions of good and evil, as they change from person to person.

I don't see why not. It happens every day in real life. And that craps way more morally grey than Code Geass or DnD.

[Realmfighter]

I don't see why not. It happens every day in real life. And that craps way more morally grey than Code Geass or DnD.

Because, everyone has there own opinion on what is right and what is wrong. You say something is right, and someone else says it right you got yourself a problem.

[Neruz]

You can't just set definitions of good and evil, as they change from person to person.

Depends. In real life setting definitions for good and evil is difficult. In a fantasy universe or in a hypothetical scenario however, it's extremely easy.


Realm - 'Good' does not neccessarily mean 'Right'.

[Micro102]

What about overall happiness? If slaughtering an innocent would bring happiness to everyone in the world that no other action could, would it be the right thing to do?

[Neruz]

Define 'Right'.

[Micro102]

Would you do it?