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Author Topic: Social Classes  (Read 1352 times)

mainiac

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Social Classes
« on: December 07, 2008, 04:09:02 am »

I was mulling over recruiting hardened gang members with pleas for the rights of fluffy bunnies, when I came up with the idea of creating different social classes of liberals.  These would represent different sub movements within liberalism and roughly break down along upper-middle-lower class lines. 
Intellectuals are the "upper" class of liberalism and cares about the more abstract aspects of liberalism; freedom of speech, animal rights, flag burning, privacy, gay rights etc.  Intellectuals includes authors, college students, doctors, artists, etc. 
Workers are the middle class of liberalism, representing the vast majority of the population from programmers to union workers and fast food workers, they care most about perceived threats to the general populace; pollution, nuclear power, taxation, workers benefits, genetic research, guns, etc.
Rebels are the lower class of liberalism, encompassing the true outcasts like gangsters, prostitutes and transients.  None of the issues besides law enforcement and the death penalty would really matter for them but maybe that will change if the issues are rethought.

So, why do these matter? 
Good question, the three different classes matter because they represent three different types of movements which could emerge, which would affect what avenues are open to your movement.  Recruitment, seduction and interrogation are all harder if the target is a different class.  Your founder also gives your movement it's initial character, meaning that throughout the game you'll have a penalty with other classes.  So if your founder is a transient it will be very hard to recruit union workers personally, and even if you have a college student trying to flip a News Anchor, there will be a penalty due to the low class level of the movement. 

With a little tweaking to character types, the different classes could be made to have very nice advantages and disadvantages.
Right now the intellectuals are fairly balanced.  On the positive side, they can recruit many useful skills, and can best get cultural sleepers and friends in the legal system.  On the negative side, they lack any personal experience in violence and theft.
Workers are balanced movement, having few highly skilled liberals (notable exception of the professional thief) but capable of taking on the enemy head on thanks to random weapon skills and army vets/black belts.  The workers are best able to create low level sleeper networks (cops/security/agents/corporate HQ workers) to warn them of conservative sieges.  The workers don't have too much heart or charisma in their ranks, meaning that an inspiring founder would be useful to the movement.
Rebels, right now are kinda underpowered, not having many powerful characters.  But Gang Members and Prostitutes are pretty useful and easy to recruit, meaning that a strong movement can be thrown together quickly.  Rebels might be helped out by the addition of a couple of thief classes, I'd suggest Pickpocket (Theft Skill) and Carjacker (Security/Driving skills).

Possible names for different types of Liberals:
Intellectual/Worker/Rebel
Civilian and below are the same
Thinker/Activist/Troublemaker
Radical/Socialist threat/Criminal
Ideolouge/Class warrior/Revolutionary
Famed Intellectual/Community Pillar/Guerrila
Elite Liberal/Scourge of Capitalism/Urban Commando
Soul of Liberalism/People's Hero/Left Wing Legend

Possible starting locations to replace homeless shelter: 
Intellectual: Vegan Co-op
Worker: Abandoned Steel Plant
Rebel: Crack House

The short of it:
This is a whole wall of text, I know, but the core change is pretty simple.  Every character would be upper/middle/class be they liberal, conservative or moderate.  Your skill would take a hit (maybe 25%) when you try to seduce/persuade/torture/bluff a member of a different class.  There is an identical skill penalty for using these skills on someone your founder isn't the same class as.  Hopefully, this will make gameplay more fun.  If so, flavor and tweaks can follow.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Rezan

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2008, 04:30:14 am »

Not too fond of this idea - persuasion is complicated enough (by that I mean that it's not horribly complicated, and I like it that way), and it seems kind of ... unnecessary to include these classes. Maybe they should be affected more by the issues (as in, how easy they are to recruit), depending on what "class" they are, but I don't like shoving people into social classes and having penalties if you're outside of a class. To be perfectly honest I don't think it'd matter much, and particularly not in the way you propose. It has to do with charisma and persuasion, classes matter very little in comparison to those.

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Guy Montag

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2008, 08:05:13 am »

A lot of what gives LCS its charm is it's absurdity.

"Hardened gangbangers are moved to join a militant left-wing organization because a hippie wearing a security guard uniform, armed with a guitar came to the crack house and told him about the plight of fluffy bunnies."

The game isn't really supposed to be some complex theoretical model of socialogy or anything.

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socially_inept_butterfly

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2008, 03:39:43 pm »

"Hardened gangbangers are moved to join a militant left-wing organization because a hippie wearing a security guard uniform, armed with a guitar came to the crack house and told him about the plight of fluffy bunnies.

Whoa, whoa. I never saved the fluffy bunnies so they could get gangbanged.
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Earthquake Damage

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2008, 03:45:01 pm »

Whoa, whoa. I never saved the fluffy bunnies so they could get gangbanged.

Gangbanger according to wikipedia.
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socially_inept_butterfly

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 03:48:26 pm »

Whoa, whoa. I never saved the fluffy bunnies so they could get gangbanged.

Gangbanger according to wikipedia.
'twas but a joke.
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Servant Corps

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2008, 01:06:49 am »

maniac, is it okay to borrow your Workers' ranking list as a list of the hieracy of how to measure the effectiveness of "Citizens' Groups"? (The higher up you are at that list, especially up to "Community Pillar", the better you are?)
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Neonivek

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 01:12:22 am »

While I agree that Social classes could be a great idea... I feel that you can kinda put in Social Niches rather then classes.

Then again very few people can agree what the true social classes of our society are... A certain number of economic theory says that Lower, Middle, and Upper class is very untelling and that the two true economic classes are Producing and Managerial as well as some mix between.
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mainiac

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 02:08:19 am »

maniac, is it okay to borrow your Workers' ranking list as a list of the hieracy of how to measure the effectiveness of "Citizens' Groups"? (The higher up you are at that list, especially up to "Community Pillar", the better you are?)

I'm not quite sure what you mean there.  You want to use the names I suggested for peaceful types of activists?  If so, sure, go ahead.

While I agree that Social classes could be a great idea... I feel that you can kinda put in Social Niches rather then classes.

Then again very few people can agree what the true social classes of our society are... A certain number of economic theory says that Lower, Middle, and Upper class is very untelling and that the two true economic classes are Producing and Managerial as well as some mix between.

The old marxist approach, eh?  Well, the upper/middle/lower I suggested has a little analogue to the marxist approach since the "intellectuals" mostly match up with the the capital; the "workers" are clearly, well, the workers and the rebels are those who are left out, since they don't produce too much.

Thing thing is that I meant to base this on the liberal perspective rather then the socialist one.  I believe that the marxist view has a place in the liberal mindset, primarily among those seeing themselves as "producing", hence the marxist allusions in the names there.  But there's also welfare state liberalism/social democracy/progressive range of viewpoints which doesn't really see social class at all except when it comes to the citizen and the alien and which tends to be a more (theoretically) optimistic viewpoint.  Also, of course, the aliens themselves tend to have rather straightforward beliefs such as "f*ck da police".  So it's a very complex and abstract discussion of identity.  Doesn't sound funny, but I think there's humor to be found.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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EuchreJack

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Re: Social Classes
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2008, 02:05:49 am »

I actually had an idea about this (like I have an idea about everything).

Base the social classes on existing skills.

Example:
Science=Intellectual
Religion=Worker
Streetwise=Criminal

Then, we up the probability of these occuring in characters of specific social classes.  Next, make these stats boost recruitment chances if both characters share the same skill, and act as a resistance roll if they don't.

Then, to add greater diversity to the LCS, make certain non-site action skill influenced by these skills.

Example:
Science- Boosts anything involving computers
Religion- Boost all the legal fundraising tasks (for those who doubt that religion skill can help with all these, I give the example of Alice Cooper, who uses his religious upbringing to generate much of the imagery in his lyrics that help make him famous.  Don't assume the liberals will use their religion skill in conventional ways)
Streetwise- Boost all non-computer-based illegal fundraising tasks