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[lumin]

I think Toady could take some inspiration for Adventurer mode in DF from the designer of this relatively new roguelike.

I had discovered Incursion several months ago when it was first released in alpha, but found it to be almost too buggy to play.  I just had another go at it a couple days ago and had possibly the most immersive experience I have ever had in a traditional RL (Other than DF of course!   ).

This game is as detailed as it gets for a Roguelike.  It is strongly based on the D&D 3e ruleset and you will find nearly all of the same races, classes and skills here.  The adventuring itself feels almost like a Pen & Paper session, only the Dungeon Master is a computer (a VERY smart computer).  

Entering rooms will give you a brief text description, and each has a very unique feel to it.  You simply won't find an endlessly cloned labyrinth here as in Nethack and Angband.

The monster AI is the smartest I have ever seen in a roguelike.  While playing last time, I 'heard' a fight going on in the room next to me.  I entered the room to find another adventurer fighting an Orc on his own!  When I entered the room, the Orc had to make the decision to come after me or the other guy.  When I backed away, to ready my bow, the Orc quickly decided that the other adventurer was the easier target, and went after him - literally chasing him down the opposite hallway!  Later I found the body of the adventurer, but no sign of the Orc.  Wow!

There are tons of cool status effects, like fear, heat/cold, and fatigue.  You can actually get scared of creatures that would really scare you, like undead.  Everything is based off your stats so performing skills like 'listen' and 'search' all depend on where you put your starting points.  The character set-up is very deep, and takes a while - just like D&D.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with you guys and see what kind of crazy stories you can come up with.  The developer has some docs on his goals for the project, much of which already exists in the game.  It is still in alpha, so expect a bug or two and not all of the skills work yet.  But still, it rivals Dwarf Fortress on sheer complexity.  Like I said before, Toady could do well trying to aim for this kind of adventurer experience in DF.

Here is the game site:

http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/

(The section called 'White Paper', is a great read too!)

[McDoomhammer]

Sold, I'll give it a try.

[Capntastic]

It has a lot of good concepts, but it's not as polished or solid as a game Toady would make.   I don't see the logic in a dungeon that has a kobold warren connected next to a room that's frozen ice, next to a peat bog, next to a haunted library.   The display is also rather confusing, since I don't know D&D and there's constantly numbers flying at me that I feel I should be paying attention to.   There's a few other things, but overall it does a good job of portraying D&D in a roguelike, I guess.

[Helmaroc]

Meh. No OSX version for us non-intels.

But, I got it to work on my PC, and I really like it. Granted, depending on how custom you want your character, it can take a long time to make one. And often I'll get killed by some diminutive creature on the first level because of my lack of healing potions. I like it though, my new favorite rogue-like.

[ April 06, 2008: Message edited by: Helmaroc ]

[lumin]

quote: The display is also rather confusing, since I don't know D&D and there's constantly numbers flying at me that I feel I should be paying attention to

Heh...confusing compared to Dwarf Fortress's display?  

You're right about things not being all that realistic, but a typical D&D game is like this too.  I have to admit, though, it is a nice break from all of the monotony from most other roguelikes in their dungeon design.  Sure it doesn't have realistic liquid flows, or every geological mineral known to man, but I think it does a great job of helping me as a player feel a greater connection to my character than most other games of this nature.

[Capntastic]

DF doesn't have me needing to know D&D rules to understand how combat is going.

[Kagus]

From the screenies, it looks like it's got a lot of stuff to read.  Not particularly pleasant with that kind of text, but maybe it's better on a larger size...

I might try this out later.  Mind you, I'm not particularly acquainted with the D&D stats either.  It took me several years of playing Baldur's Gate before I finally realized "1d10" was referring to a die with ten sides, not one damage point with ten attack points.

[Jusal]

There's already a thread about this here.

[Fishersalwaysdie]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>It has a lot of good concepts, but it's not as polished or solid as a game Toady would make.   I don't see the logic in a dungeon that has a kobold warren connected next to a room that's frozen ice, next to a peat bog, next to a haunted library.   The display is also rather confusing, since I don't know D&D and there's constantly numbers flying at me that I feel I should be paying attention to.   There's a few other things, but overall it does a good job of portraying D&D in a roguelike, I guess.</STRONG>

Name one Toady's game that is polished...

[lumin]

quote: There's already a thread about this here.  

I can't find a link to that thread from the list, is it still there?  If not, then it deserves a second chance.

Anyway, I don't really understand why some people have a hard time playing this game.  My first time playing Fortress mode in DF was much more difficult than my first time playing this and my D&D know-how isn't all that great either.  

Besides, during combat you can ignore the numbers if you want and just read the messages at the top of the screen for results.  Other than knowing that '1D20 + 4' means "Roll one 20 sided dice and add 4 to the total", the only thing you need to know is how to add and subtract.  It's really not that hard.

[puke]

quote:Originally posted by Fishersalwaysdie:
<STRONG>
Name one Toady's game that is polished...</STRONG>

i was thinking the EXACT same thing.  but what B12 games have is more forethought, continuity, and internal consistancy.  they might not have highly polished interfaces, graphics, or (by some of the self-deprecating comments i've read on the site and forums) code; but they do have highly polished IDEAS.

[Torak]

I love getting an autosave right when I die.

[Kagus]

Bay12 has games which have a lot of polish but not a lot of car.

[Keiseth]

Comparing this game to Dwarf Fortress isn't really fair; besides sharing a graphical style, they aren't really similar. Incursion is most endearing to those who love spending hours perfecting a concept, template and so on, while Dwarf Fortress intentionally hides all that from you, and achieves something different.

That being said Incursion seems to be quite fun; but it suffers from a few nasty bugs or issues. It seems like playing a mage is very, very hard as it is, and my attempt to play a diplomatic bard ended in disaster (a grease trap went off and my followers blamed me, all of them snapping and attacking.) Not to mention that NPCs sometimes just get angry for no reason (I've quelled two enemies successfully and both became hostile right afterwards; I can only assume they took offense at something that wasn't my fault.)

Quite fun though. The dungeon blows most other Roguelikes (such as Angband and variants, ADOM) dungeons out of the water, and it's a blast to adventure through with all of the strange rooms and encounters tailored specifically for them. There are an insane number of combat options available to anyone (bull rush, charge, defensive fighting and a ton more) and apparently a lot of interesting ways to apply items (hitting 'y' showed me 'tie up', 'tie to' and other actions) -- the gods are pretty awesome, too. I personally like Kysul. Good aligned Lovecraftian Great Old One? Hell yes.

[Geofferic]

quote:Originally posted by Capntastic:
<STRONG>The display is also rather confusing, since I don't know D&D and there's constantly numbers flying at me that I feel I should be paying attention to.   There's a few other things, but overall it does a good job of portraying D&D in a roguelike, I guess.</STRONG>

Credibility: FAIL.