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Author Topic: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?  (Read 7257 times)

Soadreqm

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Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« on: September 30, 2008, 04:46:58 pm »

With the upcoming underground diversity dev item possibly bringing antmen hives, and me stumbling upon the wikipedia article for ants, I thought I'd start a thread about what I feel they should be like. So, time for a nice session of speculative biology. Feel free to contribute, comment, criticize, or drink to get the images out of your mind.

Appearance:
I'm thinking fairly small, like a medium-sized dog. They're insects, after all, and the chitin exoskeleton can't support too much weight. Six legs, three distinct body segments. (IIRC, the middle bit is called the thorax and the hind bit is called the abdomen.) Can either stand on the four hind legs or crawl on all six. The front two have rather crude fingers, no opposable thumbs or anything but still quite useful for grasping stuff. An almost, but not quite, utterly inhuman face, with antennae, huge compound eyes, and a mouth with both large, powerful mandibles and and regular flat human teeth behind them.

Society:
Real ants communicate with pheromones, and real men communicate with speech. I think pheromones would be more suitable for antmen, with some screaming and screeching to communicate very simple and urgent ideas, such as intruder warnings.

Antmen are not ruled by the queen, who just lays eggs, but a hive mind. Individuals are specialized for their tasks. Most antmen are workers, who gather food, tend to the larvae, dig tunnels and so on. Soldiers protect the hive from enemies, hunt for non-vermin creatures and help the workers. Each hive has a few winged reproductive females and drones, who take to the skies every ten years, mate, and found new colonies. Most die without succeeding. The females that live become queen antmen of their new colonies. Antmen share food by digesting it into a liquid and regurgitating it, and hives have specialized honeypot antmen for the puropose of storing food. They are bloated, with athropied limbs, and cannot move on their own.

Antmen can enslave, tame and breed most other creatures, and farm plants. They don't make their own tools, but may use any they manage to find.

If the old queen of an antman hive dies, the hive may request that some other hive send a new queen, or have any breeding ant take the queens place.

All tactical planning and abstract thinking is done by the (dangerously intelligent) hive mind, and antmen rely on cooperation for everything. Individual antmen are unintelligent, and do not survive very long if separated from the hive.

Interspecies diplomacy:
As antmen communicate with pheromones, it is fairly impossible for them to speak with most other creatures. Elves are an exeption with their ability to empathise with any creature, but almost never visit the underground antman hives, and really have nothing interesting to say anyway. Antman hives might have useful trade goods to barter, but communication problems (and elven ethics) prevent bartering. Antmen treat other species, sometimes including other subspecies of antmen, mostly as food, cattle or slaves.

Antmen are not very expansionist, and do not spread beyond their ability to sustain themselves. Their acts of warfare are limited to sending out hunting parties to gather resources and defending their hives against intruders.

Movement:
Antmen can carry several times their own body weight with ease, and climb walls and ceilings. Run faster than dwarves, especially in small, tight spaces. Recieve a speed bonus when crawling, but lose use of their hands.

Combat:
Individual antmen are small and weak, and easilly dispatched by even inexperienced dwarves. Workers can't even defeat a dwarven child. They make up for this with perfect teamwork. Antmen hunt in groups, can hide in very small crevices and make very little sound. Even a few antmen soldiers are a match for an unarmed dwarf, and a dozen can ambush and kill even a large number of trained soldiers. They don't use their eyesight much, and rely on their sense of smell to locate prey. Hunting parties seldom run away, and tend to fight to the death when outmatched. Gatherers and messengers usually try to avoid combat altogether, and will try to flee from enemies.

Antmen fight mostly by biting their target with their mandibles, and scratching with their sharp, strong chitin feet. They can also hit their opponent with any object they pick up, be it a rock or a shortsword. Some subspecies have acid-secreting glands, and some can even shoot the acid from a distance.

Antmen defend their hives very effectively, defeating almost anything with sheer numbers. Merely killing the queen is not enough to permanently destroy the hive, although it will temporarily stop the production of new antmen.

Architecture:
Antman hives mostly consist of long, winding tunnels connecting larger rooms in a seemingly random fanshion. They are often dug in natural caves or deep unerground, in chasms. Antmen can also build walls from almost any materials available. Some subspecies use their saliva as a glue in construction, and some can even use silk produced by their larve to weave webs. Antmen can also form temporary structures, such as bridges, out of antmen grabbing each other.
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 04:53:15 pm »


 Remember, this is fantasy.

 Exoskeletons for all! Imagine a bear with an exoskeleton! Oh man, that would be awesome!

 Because the Rule of Cool.

 
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Vugor

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 05:09:20 pm »

indeed, they can work and exist in anyway that can be thought of........just not really at the same time.......
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cdawg

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 05:13:17 pm »

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Pilsu

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2008, 02:08:09 am »

They shouldn't be too smart. Pheromones and basic shrieking aren't very effective when it comes to communication and planning
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Mzbundifund

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 05:14:44 am »

If I recall correctly, insects don't have lungs, doing their gas exchange through pore-like apertures in the exoskeleton.  Since a dog-sized ant would have vastly more mass for its surface area, a big ant would suffocate.

Clearly therefore, antmen will need internal lungs, unlike their smaller counterparts.  This obviously means they can have them torn out by spinning mud, coins or other such deadly objects.

Also, insects have open circulatory systems, which means they have no way to restrict fluid loss through breaches in the exoskeleton.  Given the larger volumes of fluids a larger ant would hold, and the larger fluid pressures that those larger volumes imply, an antman with any sort of puncture in its exoskeleton would 'bleed' to death quite dramatically and instantaneously.

We need an [EXPLODEONBREAKS] tag.
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Soadreqm

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 10:14:46 am »

They shouldn't be too smart. Pheromones and basic shrieking aren't very effective when it comes to communication and planning
Shrieking, no, but pheromones are quite effective. Real ants cooperate like crazy and they barely have brains. Ants really do have farming and animal husbandry. With neither hands nor speech. I guess pheromones wouldn't work quite as well in larger scale, because of the longer distances and stuff, but I'm willing to ignore that.

Quote from: Mzbundifund
If I recall correctly, insects don't have lungs, doing their gas exchange through pore-like apertures in the exoskeleton.  Since a dog-sized ant would have vastly more mass for its surface area, a big ant would suffocate.

Clearly therefore, antmen will need internal lungs, unlike their smaller counterparts.  This obviously means they can have them torn out by spinning mud, coins or other such deadly objects.

Also, insects have open circulatory systems, which means they have no way to restrict fluid loss through breaches in the exoskeleton.  Given the larger volumes of fluids a larger ant would hold, and the larger fluid pressures that those larger volumes imply, an antman with any sort of puncture in its exoskeleton would 'bleed' to death quite dramatically and instantaneously.

We need an [EXPLODEONBREAKS] tag.
They could get their cardiovascular systems from the man-side.Which sort of makes me wonder how giant cave spiders manage to be so hard to kill. Maybe giant arthropods just have some Ungoliant-granted power to stay alive.

Oh, and nice pic, cdawg!
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Neonivek

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 10:24:30 am »

Well also because Pheramones don't work as well against Complex creatures as they do on simple ones such as insects.

You know those Wasps that paralyze prey and then lay their eggs in them?

If you take away the prey AFTER they paralyze them... The Wasp will lay its eggs anyway in the sand.
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PTTG??

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 11:39:10 am »

Nice scanned-from-the-DnD-monster-manual-pic, cdawg!

About the Swarm Mind:

Instead of thinking in terms of a single "overmind" consider this:
In humans, there are two basic forms of new development, Individual inspiration- that is, one person thinking alone and developing ideas- and Meme Ecology- the idea that simple concepts undergo evolution in a social network in much the same way as a gene does. By using both, we develop rapidly along, with each individual developing a whole new set of concepts upon the foundation of the ideas that came before.
Antmen function in a different way. You see, the two ends of the development spectrum- individual and ecological- are contradictory. Individual thought causes lots of mutation in the memes, causing evolution to become less and less effective as this rises. Antmen are in a different cultural evolutionary niche; they have no individual inspiration at all. Further, with their advanced communication abilities and dense social networks, ideas flow through the hive at incredible rates, evolving rapidly when the rare useful mutation arises. They have extraordinarily effective knowledge but no knowledge of how or why something might work, only what does. None of them are any more intelligent that a simple ape.

FYI: One practical thing to take away here is that the social net is essential for the antmen- if not taught what to do, they are simply large bugs. And the one ant best suited for learning and propagating knowledge would be the one that all others are guaranteed to meet at least once: the queen. Without her, you would probably see the whole hive break down and implode. After a while, a new queen would emerge, but the hive would have shrunk in the meantime.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 11:06:46 am by PTTG?? »
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Duke 2.0

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 12:28:38 pm »


 Mzbundifund, you just made me cackle out lout over the possibility of a tag making creatures explode when injured. Armies with -50 damblock and that tag would be interesting to see.

 On topic, bees can actually count. Sure it is only up to four or so, but brains the size of grains of sand can do amazing things. Now enlarge them.

 I suppose they would be intelligent in skills necessary for their food. Bees need to count in order to direct other bees where food is. Ants... they would need to think about tactics if they are a warrior society. Unless we are dealing with tree-cutter ants, which I would prefer. They would farm trees, grass and shrubs for plant matter, which they make fungus out of.

 Hmmm... Sounds dwarven.
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puke

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2008, 12:47:14 pm »

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blakyoshi7

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2008, 02:54:43 pm »

Hmmm... Sounds dwarven.

When stuff like "Human Town Mode" comes out, we need "Antmen Hive Mode". Just because.
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Guy Montag

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2008, 08:27:59 pm »

IRL, ants, and their close reletives, wasps and (kinda) bees, only use pheromones for very basic "communications" for instance, a ant laying out a path from that little puddle of gravy in your kitchen back to it's lair. Wasps, when squished, release a powerful pheromone that makes other wasps go bat-shit insane and aggressive and sting the crap out of whatever is around.

Thats basic stuff, for more intricate communications, ants do the little antenna-handshake. If you've ever looked at ants as a kid, you'll notice ants stop and do this. Bees do weird little "dances" to communicate other information.

So, an Antman, would lay out pheromones to indicate paths, and maybe they are Enraged if your dorfs squish one and release rage-horomones everywhere.

Otherwise, they communicate simple ideas with the antenna-thing, and just for the sake of having them being civilized, they have a written launguage. They write out what they want to say to non-antmen with an alphabet and all that, as I don't think an Ant-man's mandibles are able to produce any sort of coherant sound to make a spoken launguage. Maybe antmen colonies can even scratch out engravings on rocks. Certainly much more crude then a Dwarf or Human would do, but maybe base-quality engravings of basic ideas, like how much they love eating Caveswallowmen, and how awesome the Queen is.

Just a thought, anyways. I think Antmen should beable to communicate with other races, not by screaming or rubbing their antennas or squirting pheromones all over some horrified human trader or anything, but by handing them a written statement, ect.

I mean, they have to have hands and stuff, right? Would'nt be a "man" withoutone
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PTTG??

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2008, 09:34:50 pm »

I like where Guy is going with this. To ride off on my prized steed Tangent, however, perhaps they don't think of the queen as being a great "person" but as just a useful animal? Make them really alien- the Queen is just a tool for the production of more workers, with literally non-intelligence other than to eat whatever was delivered to her by the guards...

Human Trader:
   Here we are, antmen. We bring these wagonloads of tribute to your leader.
Antman:
   [We have no leader.]
Trader:
   Come on, now. I know you have a Queen. Take me to her! We have been sent on a mission of peace by KING Othag Umpigmaduc, the Sungoth of Cudal!
Antman:
   [The Queen is this way.]
---Five minutes later---
Queen:
   OM NOM NOM NOM.

(If you find out what the King's name is, you will most likely hunt me down. And you will be right.)
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SHAD0Wdump

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Re: Xenobiology! How do antmen work?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 12:04:01 am »

Wheres that dwarven translator damnit!
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