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[Soadreqm]

Anvils are extremely simple. Just a big blob of metal you hammer other metal against. Why does it take a forge to make one? Why can't I just cast it into shape or something?

I was thinking that switching anvils to be made at the smelter would increase realism, be somewhat convenient, and solve the philosophical implications of every anvil needing another anvil to make.

I don't think it would be very unbalancing. Forcing the player to buy an anvil might make the early game harder, but this is easily negated by just giving him less starting resources. Indeed, being no longer able to leave the starting anvil behind for a load of extra points may even make the beginning slightly harder.

[Reasonableman]

Seems sensible enough to me.

[Silverionmox]

Ultimately, dwarves should be able to bootstrap themselves up with their bare hands. Bringing along some tools makes it a lot easier. But the workshops will be revised sooner or later, with more specific and flexible tool requirements.
Casting metal in a shape is basic procedure in a forge, though. It's the final shaping that takes most of the skill.
That being said, nothing should stop dwarves from hammering on a stone (block) instead of an anvil, if necessary.

[Grand_Marquis]

Along those lines, I'd like to see the ability to make an anvil out of granite, like the ancient bronze-age stone anvils (though I guess bauxite would be more accurate for DF, since it's the only stone that can't melt when faced with magma atm).  They would allow for a limited forge while you work to get enough valuables to trade for a real anvil.  I think this would go along with having iron, steel, etc anvils actually differ in quality.

[Neonivek]

Anvils can't be mass produced with the technology available to dwarves, thus, they can't be made at the Smelter because it cannot smooth the metal and casts cannot produce such a surface.

Anvils are a lot more sophisticated then a simple lump of metal

[Grand_Marquis]

Well, I guess the million dollar question here is:  how DO you forge an anvil without an anvil?

[Neonivek]

Well, I guess the million dollar question here is:  how DO you forge an anvil without an anvil?

It requires special tools such as a file but the short answer is... Not at a smelter

Along those lines, I'd like to see the ability to make an anvil out of granite

That would make an AMAZING poor Anvil... well alright... I think that would make a poor anvil

[Idiom]

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

So how did the first anvil come about without an anvil? A method to obtain an anvil without an anvil would be nice.

[winner]

looking at the wikipedia article

"The common blacksmith's anvil is made of either forged or cast steel, tool steel, or wrought iron (cast iron anvils are generally shunned, as they are too brittle for repeated use, and do not return the energy of a hammer blow like steel). "

sounds like you can make it game balancing by making cast anvils shatter after a couple uses.

[Neonivek]

So how did the first anvil come about without an anvil?

They used other tools, however the same technology could make a sword without an anvil...

[sweitx]

Hm... maybe have tool in each workshop effect the "effective skill" of a dwarf?
Anvil can be replaced with a stone block.  But will receive a penalty to the quality of the product.

[Draco18s]

Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

The egg.  If you always take the view that somewhere along the gradient of change that HERE's where you draw the line between a "chicken" and "not a chicket" that individual--a chicken--was once an egg laid by its parents--not chickents--therefore the egg came first.

[Tamren]

I remember having a conversation about various methods of molding and casting stuff like metal and glass.

Way back in the 2d version you only got one anvil at the start of the game and no chance to get another unless your economy was developed. Since the only way to start the economy is by making coins at an anvil... lose that anvil and you were screeewed.

So there was talk of making anvils out of stone. They wouldn't work as well or last as long as a proper metal one, but it would do in a pinch. Would that work?

[Grand_Marquis]

So how did the first anvil come about without an anvil?

They used other tools, however the same technology could make a sword without an anvil...

Ooo, interesting!
See, I like the idea of getting to your site without any supplies and being stuck in the stone age until you've generated enough wealth to trade up.  It would be really cool to delay this evolution in favor if just being crazy, primative, war-like assholes. 

I think currently you can make stone swords, but only if you have obsidian.  But things made of bronze should not necessarily require an anvil to be made...or, like I said, a crappy granite anvil in the place of a proper one.  Or a cast iron one that falls apart just as quickly, but is less limited in what it can produce.

But sweitx, there wouldn't necessarily be a penalty to use a rock anvil (though there could be).  There instead would be  limitation on what materials could be smelted at all, and the anvil itself would degrade quickly, after one or two uses.  Meaning the mason in this theoretical fortress would love you.

[Yourself]

The egg.  If you always take the view that somewhere along the gradient of change that HERE's where you draw the line between a "chicken" and "not a chicket" that individual--a chicken--was once an egg laid by its parents--not chickents--therefore the egg came first.

That depends on whether you classify the egg by what it contains or what laid it.