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[pushy]

Has anyone ever used the same setup for their starting dwarves time and time again, only to think about it months later and realise that you're probably not giving them the best skills for the way you play the game?

For ages I've been using a pretty standard set: 2 miners, 2 farmers, a mason, a carpenter and a stonecrafter/bonecarver. But recently I was looking at it, and I felt that I was pretty much just wasting points on skills that I wasn't really using that much; I always play on maps with magma and like to build anything I can out of green glass so I've never really used a mason except for building walls and stuff, and the carpenter only makes beds, bins and barrels, which isn't a full-time job, the dwarves aren't going to care if they don't have masterpiece beds when they settle in, and the quality of bins/barrels doesn't matter unless you're trading them (which I don't).

So after months of using the same setup time and time again, I've finally changed it to something that'd hopefully be more suited to my style: 2 miners, 2 farmers, a stonecrafter/bonecarver, a glassmaker and a clothier (mittens and socks are far and away my biggest money-spinner once a caravan or two have come by with cloth).

But am I alone, or have others had similar experiences?

[Samyotix]

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Starting_builds     

[Worldwaker]

I had been using the same starting skills until I realized how boring it is doing the same thing time and time again. I just started a for about an hour ago with Humans.

[pushy]

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Starting_builds     

.....you, umm, never actually bothered reading anything that I said, did you?

[BurnedToast]

Sort of, I usually go with

2x Miner/Engraver (I know engraving trains fast, but I really hate unsmoothed walls)

1x Carpenter/Woodcutter (If the map has trees, you are right about this being kind of a waste though)

1x Grower/Herbalist (I almost never use the Herbalist skill, so it's a waste)

1x Stonecrafter/Metalcrafter (stonecrafting to get some mugs out for the 1st caravan, metalcrafting because it's more of a pain to train then bonecrafting)

1x Weaponsmith/Armorsmith (This is kind of a waste too I usually get smith related immigrants before I start making weapons/armor).

1x Administrator (social skills, trading skills)

I don't really know what to replace the weapon/armor smith, herbalism, or the carpenter with so I usually stick with this plan anyway.

[LASD]

I too was stuck with the same strating setup for a long long time. It's the one in the "Your first fortress"-tutorial. After a few months I realized for the first time that I could/should change it. It was when I embarked on a treeless area with a woodcutter/carpenter. I think I was just so scared about the game's complexity that it felt safe to have the same start every time.

And for those who don't know the infamous setup, it is as follows, from memory.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Leader/Miner
(5 mining, 1 Judge of Intent, 1 Appraiser, 2 other skills that are right next to those.)

Mason/Miner
(5 both)

Mechanic/Architect (This is the first that got me thinking, because that fast architechism just isn't needed, at least by me)
(5 both)

Woodcutter/Carpenter
(5 both)

Cook/Brewer
(5 both)

Farmer/Herbalist (This is the other one that got me thinking. Herbalism usually is completely useless)
(5 both)

And last and the least... (can be substituted with The Hunter)

The Fisher/Fishcleaner (when the pools dry up and the fishes run short, he doesn't seem so useful anymore.)
(5 both)

I still base the starting skills on these, because it seems fairly good. In fact, when playing a normal map, where everyone of these are useful, I tend to take this bunch as is.

[Flame11235]

I usually go with two miners (one of them a mechanic and the other probably a cook), a woodcutter/carpenter, mason, stone/bone carver, grower, and an administrator

[nerdpride]

I like starting with 7 picks and no miners (or maybe only one miner), having all my dwarves mine out the fortress.  It's slower, but it gives them all stuff to do.

I also find that the slower expansion is nice.  I don't need so much mason stuff when my rooms are small.  Maybe one door to the budding fortress, build some walls around the wagon and add a door there to keep critters out, four tables, four chairs, then send him back to mining.  In fact, not moving the food and stuff away from the wagon is really nice imho.  Building the tables and chairs right next to it is great too, have them inside of the same wall as the wagon with only a little extra work.  Let the immigrants haul starting stuff back into the fort when they show up.

So maybe the mason gets less mining done than the others, but he participates fully after that.  I can pretty easily get my starting dwarves up to Legendary Miners within a couple years, also having them do minor tasks at the same time, building stuff, making beds and screw pumps to train immigrants, some leather to trade for an anvil with, and a grower planting some food.  Then train all the immigrants to Legendary Pump Operators before sending them to a profession.  Yeah, life is good in the legendary fort.

Just be sure to have a handful of traps at the entrance and some dogs around in case goblins come.


High Mason/Carpenter/Architect/Cook/Brewing skills are invaluable because the stuff around your fort gives dwarves happy thoughts.  With a proficient Mason, you can forgo beds for a while and just make an armor stand for dwarves to sleep around in the early seasons, they'll still be estatic.

[zagibu]

I usually have this setup:

Miner / Brewer
Miner / Metalcrafter
Miner / Weaponsmith
Mason / Armorsmith
Mechanic / Farmer
Carpenter / Woodcutter
Building Designer / Administrator

It's a bit overkill, I know, and sometimes I trade the smith-skills against animals or more booze/food.

[MightyPaladin]

lets see whats my current build?

1.carpenter/woodcrafter.  generic woodworker.  The woodcutting is done by whatever random peasant I assign an axe to.  I used to make this guy the woodcutter, but I realized that the carpenter can't build stuff out of the wood if he's busy cutting it down.

2. mason/building designer
3. stonecrafter/mechanic

4. weaponsmith
5. armorsmith
these two don't get a lot of work early on, but I figure I'm saving metal by starting with proficient.  I used to have them start with metalcrafting and metalsmithing too, but I've gotten burned by too many fey moods that give a legendary in the wrong one   By season two they're usually as busy as can be.

6. weaver/dyer
I've been playing around with actually keeping my dwarves clothed.  It has a complex enough production chain to keep several dwarves employed.  Also making cloth crafts with a craftsworkshop.

7. grower/brewer - 'cause high-quality beer is a must

sometimes the grower/brewer is replaced by a military dwarf, especially if I'm doing an evil map.  Then I rely on the starting surplus of food until the immigrants arrive.  Also I'll often start with enough stone and wood to build an early palisade or get through an aquifer.  6 picks and an axe.

[Fossaman]

I've been starting with 16 dwarves, usually, but when I start with seven, I use this:

Miner x 5/1 point each in consoler, judge of intent, organizer, record keeper, negotiator
Miner x 5/whatever I feel like
Mason/Building designer (I figured that it's faster to have the guy who builds the building design it too, right?)
Grower/Brewer
Woodcutter/carpenter
Furnace Operator/Armorsmith/Weaponsmith/Metalcrafter/Blacksmith in some mixture
Mechanic x 5/1 each in Gem setter and cutter, stone, wood, and bone crafting.

I usually don't have much for my mechanic to do after I've gotten a trap hallway set up, so he's free to cut gems and churn out tourist crap. Everything else is fairly self-explanatory.

[Aqizzar]

I usually start with a couple dwarves with high trade skills, because they can be hard to train up with limited resources, and I'm a perfectionist and I don't like having binloads of low-quality training crap laying around.  Any labor that produces things with a quality modifier must be skilled.

I used to spread my dwarves' skillpoints over lots of areas, until I realized the way experience and stat boosts work.  Since then I usually go like this.

4xCarpenter/4xJudgeOfIntent/RecordKeeping/Appraiser
The leader, natch.  Since he doesn't have much to do, I usually make him a mechanic until an immigrant shows up.
5xGrower/5xCook
Keeps everyone fed.  Ironic, because I almost always run my foodstocks on a razor's edge.  Takes up brewing as well.
5xWeaponsmith/5xArmorsmith
I don't try making metal furniture until an immigrant smith arrives.  I never seem to find much weaponable metal, so I have to make the most of it.
5xBonecrafter/5xLeatherworker
Just because these two resources always seem scarce.
5xMason/5xArchitect
Since there's a lot of job overlap here.  There's little point to high architect skill, but well designed buildings give a happy thought, and thats never a bad thing.
5xMiner/5xWrestling
So I always have a stupidly powerful fighter right at the start.  Sometimes I replace some wrestling with animal trainer, since the job goes faster then.
5xGlassmaker/5xGemSetter
Obviously only if I'm going somewhere with sand.  If not, its ususually Clother/Weaving.

I never have a Year 2 immigrant wave without twenty people...

[Veroule]

Since the 3d version and selling of the anvil I have always used nearly the same setup.

Proficient Miner/Proficient ArmorSmith
Proficient Miner/Proficient WeaponSmith
Proficient WoodCutter/Proficient Carpenter
Proficient Mason/Proficient Mechanic
Proficient Mason/Competent Appraiser/Carpenter
Proficient Farmer/Proficient Brewer
Proficient Mechanic/Proficient StoneCrafter

Part of what makes this really work is not bringing plump helmet spawn.  I instead bring full plump helmets, and the brewer turns them all into wine after planting the sweet pods.  He can then plant the helmet crop.  This lets me bring less alcohol, more meats and fish, and a huge number of dogs.

[grelphy]

5/5 miner/mason
5/5 miner/carpenter
5/5 miner/stonecrafter
5/5 miner/farmer(planter?)
5/5 miner/weaponsmith
5/5 miner/armorsmith
2/2/2/2/2 appraiser/negotiator/intimidator/judge of intent/organizer

I dump the anvil and one axe to make room for all these skills. Generally I'll mine out the entire framework of my fortress before even beginning bed-building, food production and other "essentials." It makes for a painful start (lots of complaints about sleeping on the floor and eating without tables or chairs) but greatly eases expansion later on.

Plus, a squad of relatively skilled miners makes a surprisingly effective military force in a pinch.

Also, it's really easy to remember, which is a plus for me.

[Doppel]

With my last fortress (glass) i embarked with this:
5/5 miner/glassmaker x 5
5/5 woodcutter/glasmaker
5/5 grower/brewer.
Drop anvil, about 10 or so seeds for each type, about 50 drinks, 1 axe, 7 picks, 1 of each low cost meat, some thread, some bags and almost 300 wooden logs.
Farmer makes some needed wooden stuff, one of my miners makes some needed stone stuff, and thats about it. Past halfway of the second year now, didn't make use of their glassmaking skills yet. Priority was setting up all the needed workshops and such, fastly getting legendary in mining/woodcutting/growing, setting up a big bag economy, making wealth for trade and training useless immigrants into novice glassmakers. I'm about ready to start making green glass and clear glass on an industrial level now. Have about 35 immigrants atm (capped at 100) ,expected to fastly make about 300 bags before the year is over, have about 15 glassfurnaces on repeat collect sand and currently 12 magma furnaces wich will come into full swing churning out glass by the buckets, expected to make 3000 green glass blocks and 1000 clear glass( for portals and such) in a year. (clear glass is ofcourse is ofcourse limited by the amount of wood available, thus this number will drop significantly for the next year, while green glass will likely skyrocket)

So, i would say that everything depends on how you play.