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[Imp]

In this post Imp tries to fearmonger us into believing that everyone is town(except Euchre) and Euchre will convert 3 of us into something else even though we are not in a bastard. This is a pattern with Imp's posts, they'll speculate about the setup which I heard is a scum tell.

I see you state I am fearmongering.
I wonder if it seems possible I was asking, for reasons that made me ask?

If you think I asked those questions 'to scare people', what do you think am I trying to scare people into doing or thinking?

If this is a purposeful scum tactic that I am taking, what's it supposed to achieve, especially used at that point, instead of earlier or later?

[Mamobo]

Vote Count
------------------------
-> sofanthiel       --5-- hector13*, Secretdorf*, Maximum Spin*, EuchreJack*, webadict*,
EuchreJack          --4-- BlackHeartKabal*, ToonyMan*, Egan_BW*, notquitethere*,
Imp                 --3-- The Canadian kitten*, Elephant Parade*, Crystalizedmire*,
Egan_BW             --1-- Jim Groovester*,
The Canadian kitten --1-- Lenglon*,
BlackHeartKabal     --0--
Crystalizedmire     --0--
Elephant Parade     --0--
hector13            --0--
Jim Groovester      --0--
Knightwing64        --0--
Lenglon             --0--
Maximum Spin        --0--
notquitethere       --0--
Secretdorf          --0--
ToonyMan            --0--
webadict            --0--
No One              --0--

Not Voting          --3-- Imp*, Knightwing64, sofanthiel*,

9 to Hammer. Day ends on December 18, 2023 at 20:00 Central Standard Time (23 hours and 56 minutes remaining.)

[The Canadian kitten]

Canadian: That is exactly the kind of thing I was asking for, thank you.

What is your opinion of Sofanthiel?

Sofanthiel just been laser focused on trying to get a bandwagon on Max but lacks the case for why Max should be lynched other than "Too powerful, clearly bluffing and therefore must be scum". Talked about switching but staying on Max after some careful deliberation but not explaining why staying on Max is a good idea and should be voted for. Sofanthiel is acting scummy in the way of trying to lynch a player without a good case or theory

Unvote
Sofanthiel: What "Careful Deliberation" did you use to come to the decision the Max is a better choice than moving off?

[Lenglon]

Canadian: Okay, final one, could you please tell me, in depth, about the skilled veteran player Hector13?

[Imp]

Hey, EuchreJack, have you asked what happens there's a hammer and D1 ends before you make your selections?  I wonder if you choose to get all needed info and if you think useful have a plan for that.

[webadict]

Hey sofanthiel, would you be willing to claim your role?  It might save your life, depending on what you claim.

[Egan_BW]

Jim Groovester: What's up?

[Jim Groovester]

I am lurking so fucking hard right now like you wouldn't even believe that's what's up.

[Jim Groovester]

I'm reading the thread, leave me alone.

[ToonyMan]

Yohoho.

@Lenglon:

I do personally think there are multiple scumteams, but I have no information on the matter myself.

I also feel this way.

Jack: back here you called me to dangerous to risk recruiting, and said you were certain to attempt to recruit Max. I would still prefer for you to not recruit Max or Toony please, and still think it would be unwise for me to explain why I'm making this request. Do you still plan on recruiting Max?

"Also, um, I think dangerous is a compliment, probably... um..."
shuffles feet
"Thanks."

"You're so dangerous Lenglon~"


@Webadict:

He could have asked Jim to kill him instead of publicly requesting to be modkilled.

Not sure it has to be explained that he asked for death early on, but I was the one that defended him.  You can't really hold that against him that he had hope that people might understand.

His suicide-baiting is annoying. He wants to die, but won't vote Jim. He self-votes to die, but then backs out of it. He asks to be mod killed publicly in the thread (instead of sending a PM) only to rescind it. This lack of conviction is bad character, regardless of alignment. Do I read him as town for it? No, I can't do it.


@Imp:

could explain a little more clearly why you think EJ is in the clear?

[words]

Why would Jack get their Piratechat now instead of at the start of the game? I am annoyed how FoU has been handling this game if true.

I don't trust Jack at all.

I think your reasoning works if Jack has a team, but I believe he started the game as the only mafia in the "Pirate" group. I can only speculate on his true role, maybe he can pass his alignment to a Piratechat member if he were to die. Something that would be balanced and that Meph would be okay with while reviewing.

I really don't believe Max's idea that Pirates may not be actual players in this game. That feels very wrong to me. Everything in my mind tells me they are here and Jack is the key. Jack has not responded to me asking him to tell me his exact feelings when he was upset early on in the game here. I think this is scummy.

TricMagic being a potential SK...how many non-Pirate Mafia members would there be here if Jack is town? If Jack is mafia?


More Than 48 Hours Reads:

Town (will defend hardcore)
Imp - town as fuck, I don't know why Max scumreads them, I don't think I've played with Imp before but I read their play as very town

Leantown (will probably defend)
Knightwing - I guess he's town, thinks I'm mean for attacking Jack, I feel like he wouldn't care if he was mafia
Jim - Jim took the first opportunity to not shoot me, I feel like mafia!Jim would have hesitated at least a little to get a free juicy kill on me with no downside if he was mafia unless he knows this is going to win him favors with me...which I think I'm going to dismiss.
Egan - probably not mafia, I can see the argument that they're a hunter, but they're probably just town
BlackHeart - agrees with me about Jack, was willing to vote Jim even though they could have died the same way as Tric, probably town?
Lenglon - I think their case on Kitten is fine, don't have bad feelings from them

Neutral (don't have a strong stance)
NQT - I think they've been handsoff and sideline-y, agrees with me about Jack on the same level as Hector, null
Sofanthiel - Don't have a strong opinion, sorry, seems similar to Canadian Kitten to me but appears better to me, maybe because I don't like the people voting them

Wary (basically Neutral, but for the Big 3 players sorry Jim)
Webadict - they seem to have good intentions, they could be right about Jack, but they're showing a strong amount of levelheadedness here, how are they this confident about Jack? They shouldn't even have as much information as me.
Hector - unlike Web and Max, Hector is on my side about Jack being suspicious. I can't trust them for actually agreeing with me about this though, null
Max - very similar to Web, they're playing 4D chess together, do not trust, probably trust less than Web and Hector?

Shady (who?)
Secretdorf - I don't have anything
Crystalmire - Need to look into more
Elephant Parade - I'm having a hard time thinking of anything about them, I think this is a bad sign, maybe moreso than the others
Canadian Cat - they look opportunistic to me and haven't had a fair shake, to be fair this applies to many players

Scum (I think are mafia)
Jack - I think he's outed scum. My pragmatic brain is telling me his emotional appeals are fake and he's mad about slipping due to mod error, I want him to express his feelings on that part because it feels like he is reluctant to do so.


Wary and Shady are basically the same thing I just separated out the veterans. I wouldn't vote players that are in "Leantown" or higher. I could summarize this list as: "list of players I think are town, followed by players I'm mixed about including veterans, followed by players I have almost no feelings on, followed by Jack".

[ToonyMan]

I meant to say Neutral and Wary are the same thing.

Shady are players I think have the highest chance of being mafia if Neutral (and especially Wary) are town.

[webadict]

@Webadict:

He could have asked Jim to kill him instead of publicly requesting to be modkilled.

Not sure it has to be explained that he asked for death early on, but I was the one that defended him.  You can't really hold that against him that he had hope that people might understand.

His suicide-baiting is annoying. He wants to die, but won't vote Jim. He self-votes to die, but then backs out of it. He asks to be mod killed publicly in the thread (instead of sending a PM) only to rescind it. This lack of conviction is bad character, regardless of alignment. Do I read him as town for it? No, I can't do it.

Whatever, man.  This is a tired argument, and I know I have started to, but I think a lot of people are ignoring you.  That's... not a good thing if you're Town.

I don't think anyone really likes what EuchreJack's doing.  I yell at him a lot to stop.  But, that doesn't make him scum. 

I think if you're gonna be angry about EuchreJack not voting Jim, it'd have to be with Jim, no?  Jim was the one who used his shot on TricMagic.  I mean, you thought TricMagic was Town, so why aren't you yelling at Jim about it?  Personally, I think you don't want to because you feel like that will further jeopardize your position.

I'm not sure why you're acting like this, but it's not really producing results, is it?  The only ones who joined you are, well, not as engaged.  What does it say about your case or your attitude?  Who would want to follow you?

I asked you a while back what should be your punishment if EuchreJack flips Town, and I never got an answer.  What do you think it should be?

[EuchreJack]

Hey, EuchreJack, have you asked what happens there's a hammer and D1 ends before you make your selections?  I wonder if you choose to get all needed info and if you think useful have a plan for that.

No longer a concern, since I submitted a list to Fallacy. I might change it.

@Toony: You might want to look at the times of my actions. You'll see I change my mind after several hours. I was sleeping during at least some of those hours. But thanks for the reads list, with color codings and rankings. Makes me happy.

[webadict]

Also, Toony, by your own presumptions, there are two Mafia teams.  One of those Mafia teams would want EuchreJack dead, but you've put anyone that voted EuchreJack in the Neutral or higher category...

Why are you only focused on the Pirates and not the Mafia?

[Maximum Spin]

ToonyMan, I would care slightly more about what you have to say if I haven't already seen this Jack episode on the same Jack channel over and over again.