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[Imp]

Uh spindog wasn't voting yet, but what is wrong with voting early? It doesn't end the day unless three more dogs vote the same and hammer. Sniffs you suspiciously.

*stands talk and calm, allowing and even enjoying the sniff, then sniffs back with open curiosity, still calm and seeming interested*

Yeah!  I mentioned I'm back after a break.  It's been **years** since I even thought about mafia.  I almost immediately edited to adjust my wording there, until I thought, whoops, that's probably against the rules and would look wrong even if it's allowed, and didn't edit.  I'll probably misword a few terms as I knock my long forgetting period into the past.

There's nothing wrong with random early voting, that's a common start strategy, and may even be the best.

But what Max suggested wasn't random, it was connected based on images.  In a subtle way, it sets up the idea that 'hey, maybe both these less-doggy image folks are both cats'.  However, for most humans, and perhaps especially those less trained in logic, that helps set up the bias that if one is found to be a dog, that can feel like 'reason to believe the other is also a dog'.  Which isn't factual, but it's really smart to do, if you get away with doing it.

My concern and focus about it - if Max is informed minority, and either Imp or TCk is also informed minority, then it's pretty darn useful to set that idea up, then just try to get the non-partner of those cat-alikes picked for lynch (or night kill them) and then we have that potential idea that the partner's not scum, since the other cat-lookin' player wasn't scum.

It's pretty high-level play if so.  Subtle and has likely effect over time, it's something a psychology-aware person, or very experienced, strong player might set up over time and play with over time, or drop if it was useless.  If either Imp or TCk were godfather especially, this could be a very good subtle bias to lay to protect that partner.

**I do not want my eventual death as dog to make anyone think TCk is less likely to be scum**.  That said, there's other reasons why known-to-be-strong-player-Max-as-dog might propose such, it's a decent pot-stir, and Max himself could, before day one end (thus for sure while he's still alive), unwind the bias and not risk harming town.

But we have a number of players I think are newer/less confident here.  And I think I'm a likely early death, so I'm going to play pretty open-handed and give what I can and dare from the start this game.

Quick mechanical observation: Imp joined the discord relatively recently, despite being active prior to that at the start of the day.  This means that Tric overlooked requiring their presence there, which would've been rather difficult to do if Imp was assigned a role with a secret chat of some sort.  We most likely only have 2 hidden chats based on the fact that Tric publicly requested that Meph create "Dog Heaven" (deadchat) and "Catlandia" (mafiachat!), thus Imp is not scum!!

*winces*  I'm going to discuss a counter idea to that, as if I wasn't Imp, because I want us all to learn and think carefully.  Especially if there's a point in this game where I'm no longer alive.

We know our host made a mistake that created a Dog in the Know.  Therefore, we know our host made at least one mistake and could make others.
However, if Imp wasn't already part of the Discord, and got told or invited to join it, even early in the game, there's a chance that Imp-as-scum is smart enough to think that could look suspicious - or that a late joining might look less suspicious.  So, it's at least possible that Imp was invited early, and active, and joined late for *reasons*.  I'd just ask, treat that (and related stuff, connected to imp or anyone) as evidence, not necessarily proof.

I prefer to play in a game with strong logic and reasoning.  I am town and want a town win, but I'd rather we get there carefully more than just raw luck.  Especially if Max isn't town, because if Max isn't... luck may not be on town's side.

[sofanthiel]

In a subtle way, it sets up the idea that 'hey, maybe both these less-doggy image folks are both cats'.  However, for most humans, and perhaps especially those less trained in logic, that helps set up the bias that if one is found to be a dog, that can feel like 'reason to believe the other is also a dog'.

To be fair, I was thinking something similar to Max, i.e., "What if the dog images we submitted are tied to our abilities/alignment?", but didn't say anything for the aforementioned reason.

I also wanna point out that you seem like a really experienced player, even after all these years, for perceiving the above as potential manipulation, Imp!  I'm still inclined to believe that you're town and possibly felt bad for being cleared due to a minor GM mistake.  There wouldn't've been anything remotely suspicious about joining the discord in advance; a lot of us had to go through the same process right before the past few games began.

[The Canadian kitten]

Just reading the above posts now that I'm finally awake in daytime.

Just a general question: how much scum is present in a 7 player game? I know that in a 9 player game there is usually 2 scum in play, but what about with less people?
Yeah now I could see the potential bias that could happen.
What I seen with the dog pictures is that tric used to work it into your flavour message and have it not affect anything else.
Also this isn't a bastard game right? Tric even said that the pictures were for fun and flavour

[Imp]

Just a general question: how much scum is present in a 7 player game? I know that in a 9 player game there is usually 2 scum in play, but what about with less people?

Our host told us in the opening post:

"This game is comprised of a Doctor, A Cop, a Godfather, and a Henchmen. And 3 Vanilla dogs."

Usually Doctor and Cop are town roles, Godfather and Henchman are mafia, so I expect we have 2 scum.

[sofanthiel]

how much scum is present in a 7 player game?

2, as confirmed by Tric.

[Imp]

And about 'isn't a bastard game':

This game is comprised of a Doctor, A Cop, a Godfather, and a Henchmen. And 3 Vanilla dogs. Post your In with a cute dog image, and sniff out the Strays.
Yes, this is a silly vanilla game.

[Imp]

I also wanna point out that you seem like a really experienced player, even after all these years, for perceiving the above as potential manipulation, Imp!

Yeah.  I don't remember how many mafia games I played.  At least 2, surely less than 5.  Probably 2.5, I think I left in the middle of a game.

But the skills that mafia teaches, those are used and taught by other parts of life.  I'm likely to make errors based on 'I forgot how this forum works, and I don't remember the terminology for the mafia game right yet'.  People reading, persuasion, manipulation, logic, those skills I get to practice elsewhere and regularly, they're not specific to Bay 12 forum or Mafia.

[sofanthiel]

I expect we have 2 scum.

I really don't think the doctor could be a mafioso in a 7-player game, haha!

[Crystalizedmire]

You guys know you don't have to make so many posts about the setup, right?
Anyways, the cop should probably roleclaim on the first day since we know that there's a doctor in this game.

[Imp]

Anyways, the cop should probably roleclaim on the first day since we know that there's a doctor in this game.

What are the pros/cons of doing this?  Open question, to Crys, but to all as well.

[Crystalizedmire]

Anyways, the cop should probably roleclaim on the first day since we know that there's a doctor in this game.

What are the pros/cons of doing this?  Open question, to Crys, but to all as well.

Pros: The Cop would at least get one investigation before they die
Cons: The Doctor might die on the first night leading to the cop's death on the second night
I feel like getting an investigation before the second day is important because if we eliminate someone today, we would be sent to ELo on the second day.

[Imp]

Hrm, seems about 1/5 our first daytime has passed.

@Maximum Spin: What are your ideas for strategy in this game so far?

@The Canadian kitten:  What are your thoughts so far about participation levels for everyone?  And when do you plan to get some of that 'stupid stuff' going?

@sofanthiel: What's your current opinion of Crystalizedmire's interaction and participation so far?

@Quarque: I missed you answering Crystalizedmire's opening question - is that part of your playstyle, or what are you willing to tell us about it?

@a1s: ... Man.  So checking back, you seem likely to be very quiet at the start of mafia games.  Why is that, and what do you like most about playing mafia?

@Crystalizedmire: If you were cop this game, at this point, who would you investigate and why?

[Imp]

Anyways, the cop should probably roleclaim on the first day since we know that there's a doctor in this game.

What are the pros/cons of doing this?  Open question, to Crys, but to all as well.

And this is an open question I'd love everyone's answer on, not just Crystalmire's, please.

[sofanthiel]

What are the pros/cons of doing this?

Pros: A strategy that involves the doctor healing the cop every night until the former is killed by pure chance may be effective.
Cons: The medic may get shot on the very first night, and then their friend will drop right after due to having their role already revealed.

Question to Imp: Why, do you think, would Crystal specifically want the cop to role-claim so early on?

[The Canadian kitten]

To above posts because too hungry to format stuff:

Missed that about the roles, thanks for reminding me

was asking about the bastard thing as the idea of these submitted images controls the alignment of the player when we know tric said it was just for flavour.

now i wonder if all players got personalized flavour in their role pm

@The Canadian kitten:  What are your thoughts so far about participation levels for everyone?  And when do you plan to get some of that 'stupid stuff' going?

very basic cuz too hungry to think too much
Imp: definitely participating and adding to the discussion
a1s: has not posted
Maxspin: only posted once and is about generally memey stuff
sofa: posts about looking deep into discord and stuff, I think sofa just overthought this once adds to conversation by proposing and talking about the ideas
Quarque: posts once and is about responding to other posts.
CM: actively adds to the conversation
The stupid stuff would be what I did earlier, asking questions about things that were already there but I skimmed over. expect me to start saying more stupid things as I generally tend to do. plus posting when extremely hungry/tired tends to make ill-informed opinions/decisions
unfortunately, my memory been recently turned into that of a goldfish so expect much more questions about obvious things
other stupid stuff like making my posts disjointed as I just type out my thoughts and they don't lead well into each other.
Or, taking forever on making posts since I'm worried that I'll missed something important and continuously revise it until i deem it good enough.
will answer the cop thing once not about to die from hunger