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Author Topic: Cathay and Formosa discussion thread  (Read 13649 times)

Strongpoint

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2023, 01:52:59 pm »

jipehog, physically enforcing the blockade means firing on ships that try to go through. Or boarding them. It will be China who will need to make a decision to escalate and open fire on American vessels, which I doubt because if they are willing to do that, than they may as well start an invasion.

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jipehog

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2023, 02:39:21 pm »

It also helps to realize what a Blockade actually is.
I'd suggest looking it up on Wikipedia
True, China view Taiwan as its sovereign territory and does not accept that any other nation has the right to interfere with its attempts to regulate its trade or customs arrangements. Thus the term 'quarantine' which imply that no state of war exists between belligerent nations would be more appropriate (coined by USA with Cuban missile crisis)

In their view this is no different than USA getting in the midst of Spain spat with Catalan. And many would agree particularly since China is the top trading partner of everyone around and more than 120 countries worldwide, which is why I think that unlike the invasion scenario this will get much less international support for USA efforts.

jipehog, physically enforcing the blockade means firing on ships that try to go through. Or boarding them. It will be China who will need to make a decision to escalate and open fire on American vessels, which I doubt because if they are willing to do that, than they may as well start an invasion.

I doubt that China would have any problem in controlling maritime access of cargo ships to Taiwan. While USA could actively try to challenge the quarantine using its shipping but what happens when China simply park several ships in their path what will USA escorts do then?

Better question is would USA dare escalation over Taiwan in the first place if China declares that as redline and such action would lead to escalate into space and nuclear domain?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2023, 02:49:49 pm by jipehog »
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Strongpoint

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2023, 03:10:22 pm »

Quote
I doubt that China would have any problem in controlling maritime access of cargo ships to Taiwan. While USA could actively try to challenge the quarantine using its shipping but what happens when China simply park several ships in their path what will USA escorts do then?

Em, uhm, Sail around? And react to ramming attempts accordingly.

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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

jipehog

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2023, 04:36:14 pm »

Last I checked cargo ships aren't very maneuverable, and as noted China have many more ships that are more suited for this.

Otherwise, you haven't answered the main question, and if there will be an escalation leading to ww3 no one will care about finger pointing.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2023, 08:35:01 pm »

The fundamental problem is that NO nation has enough ships to surround any island with ships.  That isn't how blockades work.

Instead, the blockading nation surrounds the sea lanes, and declares that any ship going to or from that nation belongs to them.

It's probably important to note that there potentially exists several levels of blockade.

Knowing People's Republic of China, they'll poke and prod a bit to see what they can get away with, then tailor their actions within that framework.

"Quarantine" is an interesting word.  But not appropriate, since Taiwan is a sovereign nation.

brewer bob

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2023, 11:40:45 pm »

since Taiwan is a sovereign nation.

There's (unfortunately) only a few nations that recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country: 13 in total of which 12 are UN members. Might add that the US is not among those who recognize Taiwan.

Strongpoint

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2023, 05:26:30 am »

"Quarantine" is an interesting word.  But not appropriate, since Taiwan is a sovereign nation.

"Quarantine" is the word USA used in 1968 when blockading the sovereign Nation of Cuba. And I fully expect that if China will try something, they'll find some fancy word, too.

Times of declaring wars and imposing blockades are gone... We live in the world of "Special Military Operations" and other stupid stuff of that nature.
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scriver

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2023, 09:11:07 am »

I mean, Taiwan is just one faction of the Chinese civil war. Have Taiwan even began to claim to be a different state? I'm pretty sure they still consider themselves China.
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brewer bob

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2023, 09:37:44 am »

I mean, Taiwan is just one faction of the Chinese civil war. Have Taiwan even began to claim to be a different state? I'm pretty sure they still consider themselves China.

Well, I guess technically ROC could claim that since there is only one China, so mainland China should submit to the rule of Taiwan?

But there's those who favor independence, and the current government is more pro-independence than the previous ones, if I've understood correctly (hadn't really been following Taiwan news for a long time before the Ukraine war).

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2023, 10:26:57 am »

I mean, Taiwan is just one faction of the Chinese civil war. Have Taiwan even began to claim to be a different state? I'm pretty sure they still consider themselves China.

Well, I guess technically ROC could claim that since there is only one China, so mainland China should submit to the rule of Taiwan?
Well they can try anyway.
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scriver

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2023, 11:30:37 am »

I'm also not super up to date, but I was of the impression that that has indeed been their stance, historically, except they have been on a standstill in the war for the last halfacentury and also lacking in the ability to enforce it?
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brewer bob

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2023, 11:38:59 am »

I mean, Taiwan is just one faction of the Chinese civil war. Have Taiwan even began to claim to be a different state? I'm pretty sure they still consider themselves China.

Well, I guess technically ROC could claim that since there is only one China, so mainland China should submit to the rule of Taiwan?
Well they can try anyway.

Nothing certainly could go wrong!

Duuvian

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2023, 03:28:43 am »

That was a position previously held but has now been dropped. Not sure offhand if that was the KMT or if it was after they lost the executive but without double checking I think so.
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jipehog

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2023, 05:30:18 am »

China Prioritizes 3 Strategic Technologies in Its Great Power Competition
Space, AI, and quantum computing and communication are China’s top technology priorities. How advanced are its capabilities in each?
https://thediplomat.com/2023/04/china-prioritizes-3-strategic-technologies-in-its-great-power-competition/

some interesting details I wasn't aware of.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Republic of China discussion thread
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2023, 11:35:40 am »

China Prioritizes 3 Strategic Technologies in Its Great Power Competition
Space, AI, and quantum computing and communication are China’s top technology priorities. How advanced are its capabilities in each?
https://thediplomat.com/2023/04/china-prioritizes-3-strategic-technologies-in-its-great-power-competition/

some interesting details I wasn't aware of.
Probably not nearly as advanced as People's Republic of China claims they are...
Edit: Turns out the article is trash that had no fact checking done. It's just "China say, China says"
Where do they get these garbage professors and garbage journalists?
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