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[Lenglon]

Tric: so you are defending Jim before Jim has even responded to my accusation?

[TricMagic]

Tric when competent / focused? Scum.
Tric when incompetent / unfocused? Town.

This Tric is incompetent / focused.

Combine that with the heavy fixation on hats, part of the opening flavor (reminder that we submitted flavor fragments), and an awareness of alignments while making no active effort to scumhunt, while talking about its importance?

He’s probably third party. Outsider or SK I’m guessing. More town points to Toaster then.

You made this post a while ago Fallacy. It was funny.

Tric: so you are defending Jim before Jim has even responded to my accusation?

I'm ripping apart the base of your argument before you can get it started. As you say others d... Well, Jim says everyone would see it, so he skips a step, no foundation. (In what you are saying, right?)

100% Not Mafia^{Toonyman/Approved, now with added Jim Flavor}

Fallacy's mistake, is in making his case upon me being Mafia/TP. Jim does not agree. Nor does he believe Fallacy would make that case as town. I think that is the foundation of his case against Fallacy. I respond because the foundation being missing is why you make your case against Jim.

[Lenglon]

Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable. I just find it interesting that you're so extraordinarily quick to defend him. If you were town, wouldn't you want to let Jim respond first, just on the off-chance that you were being defended by scum? It's not like I'm attacking you in any way after all. Well, before now anyway. It is pretty fascinating how you're creating a link between the two of you like this.

[Maximum Spin]

Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.

(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)

[Lenglon]

Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.

(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)

(his last activity updated multiple times since I posted. It's possible, but unlikely. There is a very good chance that he was able to read it on lunch break but doesn't have the time to respond until he's off work. there's no rush.)

[TricMagic]

I read you message, disagreed with it, and asked a question. That and I don't really trust you, so.. I would rather see Fallacy go than Jim, cause I've spotted the lie in their post. Most everyone else has just skimmed past mine though...

You could be town not seeing what Jim sees. You could be mafia taking the opportunity to vote Jim out now that the Fallacy Gambit has failed, thus saving another day to act. Or you could be TP, taking the opportunity.

Nin. I'll note I did not read the rest of your argument other than Skim at the time. That quote was what I had problems with.

[TricMagic]

On actual read, just skimming seems to have gotten the relevant bits anyway..

[Lenglon]

I read you message, disagreed with it, and asked a question. That and I don't really trust you, so.. I would rather see Fallacy go than Jim, cause I've spotted the lie in their post. Most everyone else has just skimmed past mine though...

Please, show us the lies we've missed from each of you.

[Jim Groovester]

Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable. I just find it interesting that you're so extraordinarily quick to defend him. If you were town, wouldn't you want to let Jim respond first, just on the off-chance that you were being defended by scum? It's not like I'm attacking you in any way after all. Well, before now anyway. It is pretty fascinating how you're creating a link between the two of you like this.

Tric: in case you didn't notice, Jim is online right now. Jim's read what I had to say. He's probably just taking some time to put thought into his response, which is perfectly reasonable.

(Going by timing, I think there's a decent chance he was actually on lunch break and may be unavailable now.)

(his last activity updated multiple times since I posted. It's possible, but unlikely. There is a very good chance that he was able to read it on lunch break but doesn't have the time to respond until he's off work. there's no rush.)

I would respond faster but I'm not convinced you're actually interested in representing what I've said in a good faith manner, so I'm not convinced engaging you over this is going to be a good or entertaining use of my time. Especially not in the middle of work.

You can make judgments all you want but this:

Here's what your argument boils down to:
1) Tricmagic is not only not maf, but is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
2) FoU is pushing a case against someone that is above all suspicion and confirmed as not maf.
3) therefore FoU is scum.

Is not the argument I've been making. On the surface it seems similar but doesn't actually match what I've said. So if you can't or won't understand the point I'm making well enough to characterize it accurately regardless of whether you agree with it or not, I don't see much point with this. (And there's no point asking me to repeat it, since you have asked pointedly before and I replied and then you replied with this.)

Fallacy's mistake, is in making his case upon me being Mafia/TP. Jim does not agree. Nor does he believe Fallacy would make that case as town. I think that is the foundation of his case against Fallacy. I respond because the foundation being missing is why you make your case against Jim.

TricMagic is biased here, but he understands my point and you don't.

[Jim Groovester]

Also, I'm working, leave me alone.

[TricMagic]

? I literally just did when I quoted that part of the post?

Ninjad. In any case, read the post with the red text. That red text in quotes is my comment. I even bolded the relevant information.

[Lenglon]

So now that Jim responded I was going to actually bother to read your defense of him Tric, but the thing is heavily based on quotes you broke the links to and don't even say who they're from. And since you took my quote out of context and stripped the formatting from it to do so, I have no reason to believe you didn't do the same with your other quotes as well. So Tric, fix your quotes so you can't keep on lying by taking people out of context, and then I'll address your arguments.

[TricMagic]

... Lenglon, at this point, that statement makes me doubt your intent. You can't even... SERIOUSLY! You completely missed such a post? I take a shortcut, and suddenly you accuse me of lying by them. It makes me think you didn't even bother to read the original.

[TricMagic]

It doesn't help that this was one of my first posts of the day. Explain that.

Fallacy:

If TricMagic actually transitions into acting properly town, I'll probably unvote, or move back to Jim.

Is this an actual response to my unvote, which is me unvoting him because I think he's acting better?  It doesn't sound like one.

Currently I don't really care about the number of people voting Tric? He's not going to go down, so what matters more is what I learned from the attempt.

Nearly certain Jim's going to launch a case on me as soon as he's next on the forum.

I do think my case jarred Tric into action, I'm just not sure by how much and whether that means he's town.

You mostly learned that I can gift hats. Not much else. I'm still waiting for that Thunderdome Fallacy, have some Conviction in your case. As is(and Toaster said it better), voting me while making that lynch my guilt. But you built that vote around people who I don't have any connections with personally. I haven't really pnged them as much, so.

Now the question is, which of these reads makes the least sense? Which is least genuine?
Fallacy Reading

Knightwing's read on Tric reeks of Knightwing. Genuineness high. What is Genuineness? You claim them to be correct in their read, yet vote me in the same post.

ToonyMan thinks Tric is being Tric. Genuineness high, but in all honesty I can't read Toony at all, generally speaking. You can't read Toony, but claim Genuineness from them. Being honest, I'm not really sure I can trust them if they're playing the long con. But that's fairly normal from me.

Fluffe is new. Genuineness high. Genuineness is new. Fluffe high. (Just words that can be swapped around. Rather than my opinion on them.)

EuchreJack... eh. Feels like he can do better. Genuineness N/A, will be reevaluated when he makes a proper effort to read him. (You claim Jack is a bad lynch, a trash read by me. Yet someone you can't trust and has yet to really be seen could be a possible Day 1 lynch. Why the Change of Heart?{I swear if that's actually your role I will laugh.})

Jim Groovester's read doesn't seem right. It seems like it's accurately described, but his behavior is eerily defensive. His sole reason for voting me is that I voted TricMagic and didn't read him how Jim read him. Genuineness low. (How is it low? They've participated, should be readable. What makes the drop in Genuineness? IMPORTANT: Timeline does not line up. Fallacy voted Jim first, after Jim voted Fallacy for his read. See Mamobo *links.
A point of order. Toaster was voting me before all of this. It's an outright fabrication of events to fit a theme.)

This is why having a lot of discussion is good, lies like these pop up. All you need to do is look for them. (You can say you made a mistake, but it's still a fault in your reasoning.)

Lenglon subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness moderate? Could do with more detail. (Why is Lenglon's Genuineness moderate? This is the point where we see who you don't trust. Or are setting up. In any case, please explain why.)

juicebox subscribes to hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high, but also subject to reevaluation. This deserves more detail. (An error? What makes the difference in Genuineness and why does Hat Tyrant make a lick of difference?
... Beyond which, in the same line you say reevalutation needed, which just feels... Tacky?)

Toaster thinks TricMagic is Org's reincarnation. Genuineness high. (No data for this read. No data for the reason.)

Egan's read is very Egany. Hat tyrant theory. Genuineness high. (At this point you've just stopped No reason beyond being Egany. And not even reevaluation.. Why are these three so different?)

A_Curious_Cat, aka Chilicarp, hasn't talked about Tric. Genuineness high, it's their first game, they get some slack. (And at this point it's all about the dragon in the room, not about connections and who's mafia or not.)

hector13... hm. Feels like he's not putting as much into reading Tric as he could be. Genuineness moderate-low. (And now you subscribe Genuineness to if people are even talking about me in the first place.)

notquitethere, as mentioned, seems to be avoiding making alignment based points about Tric. (Which is how you got the Mafia Team in the first place. This is completely backwards, as you'd be making the argument Mafia has just abandoned me. While in later posts you say Mafia doesn't ant to lose a vote. So wouldn't they attack you?)


So, crazy theory. I think the scumteam could realistically be TricMagic, Jim Groovester, and then one or both of hector13/notquitethere, depending on how the setup works out. If there's a bunch of third parties it'd be just one of them, if not it's both.

Jim and notquitethere's behavior seems to match the idea of 'distance the guy that'll drag us down like an anchor if we don't'. Reluctant to target him, but acknowledging that he's funky as hell. Hector is less suspicious, but still a possibility.

If this theory does hold water I'd scum-percentage these people as 100% scum (required) TricMagic, 85% scum Jim, 65% notquitethere, 40% scum hector.

The thing is though?

This makes TricMagic an ideal execution / vote. Based on this connection, it'll be extremely informative about the scumminess or lack thereof of a good few people. Nearly everyone has thoughts on Tric. We don't lose anything from the vote since the most likely outcomes are he's either third party or scum - most of us don't think he's town. (In conclusion, you've built your case around nothing, a complete lack of connections preluding a connection based upon that. But you've used Jim as your lynchpin for the team, who is trying to protect me. So your Fallacy isn't even internally consistent. There is no data to be gained because the internal reasoning is cracked, falling apart..)

It's, in other words, a safe, effective execution - perfect for Day 1.

I'm willing to sustain this vote for the remainder of the day unless a better target presents themselves. (So.. Fallacy. Who's the better target now that you're backing off?)

There probably are ninjas here. I'm posting this anyway, cause breaking apart a post is a fairly effective method of mine. Don't poke the sleeping dragon and all that. As for my third party status, no comment for now cause all my energy was focused upon this post.

[Lenglon]

Oh, that crap. Yeah, i didn't read it. You revealed near the start of it you were off your drugs and it wasn't worth my time. Still isn't.