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Total Members Voted: 20

[Maximum Spin]

What technology would solve the problem that we shovel food into dumpsters, lock them, then call the police to guard them with guns?
Because we HAVE the FUCKING food.

Wait, I do know one piece of technology that solved that in the past.  It was very humane for the time.

See, this is the kind of shallow misunderstanding you get when the only thing you know about the problem was overheard at a DSA meeting.

Generally from the same people who would be the first to blame capitalism if homeless people eating out of dumpsters start dying of ergotism or some other kind of food poisoning.

Let me expand on this.
I don't know if you live in Utopian California or something, but where I come from, the produce on the shelves is pretty ragged. As a nation, we are not throwing away perfectly decent, slightly blemished food on ANY significant scale. It is already diverted to poorer parts of the country. The guarded-dumpster stories that fascinate Reddit-level intelligences are rounding error.

ETA: It's funny to me, though, because "poor people should be allowed to eat expired food at their own risk" is such a fundamentally Randian take.

[Frumple]

I'm not following what technology was very humane? technology?

Humane for its time; rol's referencing the guillotine.

As a nation, we are not throwing away perfectly decent, slightly blemished food on ANY significant scale. It is already diverted to poorer parts of the country. The guarded-dumpster stories that fascinate Reddit-level intelligences are rounding error.

Like... I've interacted with a lot of folks that work grocery stores, 'cause I'm a poor sumbitch in one of those poorer areas of the country and they're some of the larger employers around here. Every single person I've encountered that's made commentary on that has indicated we are, in fact, throwing away significant amounts of decent, slightly blemished food on scale (to the point it's been incredibly common in my experience for the businesses in question to basically end up fighting off their own bloody staff before they start screwing with dumpster divers). It's not a reddit phenomena, it's something store workers notice trivially and consistently. Last time I actually saw data on it, it seemed to indicate similarly, for that matter.

Corps, even small businesses, are to all appearances extremely conservative in regards to expiration dates and whatnot, which already trend heavily towards excessively cautious. It really does lead to a friggin' tremendous amount of wastage that doesn't get diverted anywhere but a garbage dump.

[dragdeler]

Or the drain, I've spent whole afternoons pouring expired schweppes down the drain. Rounding error? Possibly at that scale... More like we want to be able to say we carry evertything and subsidize the choice with a handful of products that actually make the world go round. But I know for a fact that the lemon water doesn't truely degrade, I've had some that was 3-5 years over the date myself.

[Rolan7]

What technology would solve the problem that we shovel food into dumpsters, lock them, then call the police to guard them with guns?
Because we HAVE the FUCKING food.

Wait, I do know one piece of technology that solved that in the past.  It was very humane for the time.

See, this is the kind of shallow misunderstanding you get when the only thing you know about the problem was overheard at a DSA meeting.

Generally from the same people who would be the first to blame capitalism if homeless people eating out of dumpsters start dying of ergotism or some other kind of food poisoning.

Let me expand on this.
I don't know if you live in Utopian California or something, but where I come from, the produce on the shelves is pretty ragged. As a nation, we are not throwing away perfectly decent, slightly blemished food on ANY significant scale. It is already diverted to poorer parts of the country. The guarded-dumpster stories that fascinate Reddit-level intelligences are rounding error.

ETA: It's funny to me, though, because "poor people should be allowed to eat expired food at their own risk" is such a fundamentally Randian take.

I'm glad you're finding humor in people starving.  You're also completely wrong about how much good food we're needlessly wasting.

Call me naive and a "redditor" all you want.  All I see is denial and vicious mockery of a serious issue, and as I said, we found a technological solution to that problem in the past.

I don't know what inspires a person to donate their oh-so-informed time to defending the behavior of megacorporations for free.  It's at least interesting when they come with facts, though.  That would be understandable, perhaps even professional.  But "haha you care?  That's so cringe, dumbass, [strawman]" is deeply pathetic.  Humans should be better than that.  The corporations aren't going to reward you for simping.

[Maximum Spin]

Like... I've interacted with a lot of folks that work grocery stores, 'cause I'm a poor sumbitch in one of those poorer areas of the country and they're some of the larger employers around here. Every single person I've encountered that's made commentary on that has indicated we are, in fact, throwing away significant amounts of decent, slightly blemished food on scale (to the point it's been incredibly common in my experience for the businesses in question to basically end up fighting off their own bloody staff before they start screwing with dumpster divers). It's not a reddit phenomena, it's something store workers notice trivially and consistently. Last time I actually saw data on it, it seemed to indicate similarly, for that matter.

Corps, even small businesses, are to all appearances extremely conservative in regards to expiration dates and whatnot, which already trend heavily towards excessively cautious. It really does lead to a friggin' tremendous amount of wastage that doesn't get diverted anywhere but a garbage dump.

Expired food is not what I was talking about in that paragraph, but the usual complaint of "Americans throw away produce that isn't perfect". (I do accept the blame for talking about two different things at the same time and probably not being clear enough about what I meant.) The shelves of my local stores in another poor part of the country aren't stocked with expired food either. Expired food isn't what I'm considering "perfectly decent" - it may be edible, and yes, a lot of it is, but the issue with giving it to anyone is liability. Since the manufacturer only warranties its edibility up to the expiration date, it becomes an Objectivist "eat at your own risk" scenario. In many cases it may not even be possible to tell whether the food is still edible without opening up the packaging, which is a can of worms on its own. Nobody wants to be responsible for giving poor people food poisoning or be accused of tampering with the food in the process of checking it. So, for liability reasons, the expired food does get thrown away, of course. But the only viable alternative to that would be the Randian one of indemnifying people for good-faith effort and accepting the possibility of unpredictable harm, which is politically completely unpalatable for obvious reasons.
Even then, though, the silly "police guarding dumpsters" thing... I don't know about you and your grocery store stories, but I've never seen that happen - I've heard of it happening in other parts of the country maybe once or twice, which was probably distorted anyway, so I reaffirm my description of that as a rounding error.

Or the drain, I've spent whole afternoons pouring expired schweppes down the drain. Rounding error? Possibly at that scale... More like we want to be able to say we carry evertything and subsidize the choice with a handful of products that actually make the world go round. But I know for a fact that the lemon water doesn't truely degrade, I've had some that was 3-5 years over the date myself.

I don't think Schweppes is actually food in the first place and do not condone giving it to poor people. Or anyone.
ETA:

I'm glad you're finding humor in people starving.  You're also completely wrong about how much good food we're needlessly wasting.

Call me naive and a "redditor" all you want.  All I see is denial and vicious mockery of a serious issue, and as I said, we found a technological solution to that problem in the past.

I don't know what inspires a person to donate their oh-so-informed time to defending the behavior of megacorporations for free.  It's at least interesting when they come with facts, though.  That would be understandable, perhaps even professional.  But "haha you care?  That's so cringe, dumbass, [strawman]" is deeply pathetic.  Humans should be better than that.  The corporations aren't going to reward you for simping.

Doesn't matter to me. Your ideology is over and done with anyway. You can keep living as you please.
By the way, if anyone cares to hear a serious treatment of some of the difficulties in food distribution, a user PMed me asking about it last night and I'll copy my reply to anyone who actually wants my opinion, I guess. It's long enough that I don't want to just repost it here when the thread isn't even about that. It's all fairly straightforward, though, I'm not claiming to have anything groundbreaking.

[dragdeler]

Doesn't matter to me. Your ideology is over and done with anyway. You can keep living as you please.

You're such a persona lol. Mer san noch duarch'd welder spronge. A rugged man, living a leathery live. Driving his truck out of necessity.

This is boring, you're boring.




None of you incultured swine acknowledged my funny inversion of "there are no political solution only technological ones", that I thougt particularly on point since we are discussing machines built to talk. Inbefore persona over there acts all blasé like he caught it and it was beneath it, yeah that's why we're debating at random corner pub level, yeah no I know I'm the crazy and I never make any sense  , but I anticipated it and thus I am totally relaxed, validating whatever non-sense I spew  , sorry Ugug but I've allready cavepainted you as the prey.



Talk is boring. That's why those shit machines will never amount to shit in their current implementation, except spam the kind of mind that had still had a burden of proof to fullfill pertaining it's own sapience... So light up the world in a giant hayfire of eversame sameness, that will leave us degraded.

Did I do it am I the most non-chalant now? Let's settle it american gladiator style, and bring those oversized cotton swaps they're bound to get my adrenaline going so well, we can get some serious deconstruction work done that afternoon.

[Strongpoint]

Oh, good old "simple solutions to complex problems that are not implemented because of evil people of not my ideology in charge"...

Keep in mind that AIs are trained on threads like those. Don't expect them to offer high-quality solutions no matter how many CPU cycles they'll waste.

[Maximum Spin]

Oh, good old "simple solutions to complex problems that are not implemented because of evil people of not my ideology in charge"...

Keep in mind that AIs are trained on threads like those. Don't expect them to offer high-quality solutions no matter how many CPU cycles they'll waste.

Lol. Accurate.

[dragdeler]

Now that we thoroughly established that cliché how about not rushing every novelty health powder to market and then be kinda nervous about their shelf life, frozen goods everybody knows you can't freeze shit basically indefinitly... If you're going that route at least be knowledgeable enough to understand that high profile brands will want to insure their flavor profile and to them destroying whole batches can amount basically to a rounding error. Oh no but pivot, "you pampered folks just won't eat the ugly veggies". Right like we aren't feeding stock with that kind of stuff, or at least the biogas generator.


Sure thing shining example, all your warmongering be real nommy info too will make it grow up smart and wise.

[McTraveller]

Wow the conversation took an odd turn.  I was out all afternoon watching Dune. Interestingly the movies don’t bring up the Butlerian Jihad at all, which is fitting for this thread.

[dragdeler]

I'm quite curious what bits of lore could be dispersed in there, hidden between tech-demo'y blackest shades of black, and the muezzin droning on over the mumbling and whispering.

[KittyTac]

I think I smell a thread lock coming up soon.

[dragdeler]

The pen is, mightier in a homoerotic meatsword duel. Sigh you killed that title by appearing right above me. All good. An insomniac essay:

What is weaponized speech I'm not talking about the strict definition meant to point at forms of demagogery, exclusionary and demeaning rhetorics, but in a broad sense: treaties imposed on indigenous people conquered, taxlaws meant to be convoluted, officialese, dismissive jargon, advertisement, certain accents that are directly linked to class and serve to exclude those who are unable to adhere to these standards, plain old bullying, did I mention advertisement allready? There is a battle raging for our minds and our attention. The more familiar I get with the subject, the less I can get myself to believe that the impact of an AI revolution would be most analogous to the industrial revolution. It's starting to feel more and more akin to the black plague in the informationsphere. Like ten years from now everything that isn't a walled garden will be mainly bots talking to bots and search engine optimized hallucinations. Which is a shame, it's probably one of the cooler things we invented. Heck I'd even prefer some grimey version where everybody can be their own expert in a meaningful fashion, and the whole world overgrows with this non-standardised poorly secured DYI layer, accidents and attacks blossoming at every streetcorner. But it won't be as cool as that, we as a species are not as cool as that. It will be super lamey, samey and oh so spammy.

I know it seems like a reductio at absurdum, but in all honesty, is it that far off to assume humans identity would be extended by this super verbose spam, negotiating with other instances of said spam, without anybody having the time or caring to read the fineprint. I chatgpt#7427F49 hereby declare on the behalf of my user that I have read §165 subsection D.8 of the enduser agreement and agree to said clause, and submit answer B to the mandatory quiz that serves to prove wether I read and understood said clause, [system:prompt §165D9].

Let the students have LLM write their works, the teachers have LLM grade their works, your copilot answer to your mails, and we might get there soon enough. Well at least we will get to argue that we will have leveled the playing field concerning my afore mentionned forms of weaponised language, while perpetuating our class structures as we allways did and pat ourselves on the back when we get to say, "hey look  even in this destitute part of the world statistics show that 60% of people own a smartphone with a chatslave that scores 1350 or higher"***.
Culture is not our friend has allways been something we had to cope with, that won't change but we will be able to really live out our callous apathy by having large parts of it outsourced into the netherrealm where it can grow abscesses and metastases forever.


***Yeah because I'm starting to come around on that... Have you seen those neat little google corals, or what apple silicone does?

[EuchreJack]

The truth about AI is that it's a tool. And if you like the answer, you think it's a great tool.
If you don't like an answer then it's an awful tool. Look at how various groups have used various models, surveys, assessments, recommendations, and pure data in the past. As tools.

And the garbage dumpsters are locked up to keep people from putting things in the dumpsters for free, NOT to prevent anyone from taking anything OUT of the dumpsters. Letting people haul away your trash FOR FREE is Good Business.

[Maximum Spin]

What is weaponized speech I'm not talking about the strict definition meant to point at forms of demagogery, exclusionary and demeaning rhetorics, but in a broad sense: treaties imposed on indigenous people conquered, taxlaws meant to be convoluted,

Those aren't speech, they're military action. Laws and treaties are enforced by, well, force. The force is what does the weaponizing - without it, the words are nothing.