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Poll

Reality, The Universe and the World. Which will save us from AI?

Reality
- 13 (68.4%)
Universe
- 3 (15.8%)
The World
- 3 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 19


Pages: 1 ... 25 26 [27] 28 29 ... 42

Author Topic: What will save us from AI? Reality, the Universe or The World $ Place your bet.  (Read 26611 times)

EuchreJack

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  • Lord of Norderland - Lv 20 SKOOKUM ROC
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I kinda hate how I have to "fiddle" to get the captchas right. Like, sometimes you'll get one that says "select the squares with the car", and over half the squares will have some part of the car. If you do it "right", you get kicked out. You have to say "no no no, dumb human only pick some", then it usually works.
....
but "which ones!?"

To be clear the orwellian system would probably just be you signing up for googleVerified or MetaHuman or some other service and using that to log into everything. If you don't sign up sure, that's your choice, but don't expect to be able to sign up for new websites.
Clearly someone pays for their porn...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

KittyTac

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  • Impending Catsplosion. [PREFSTRING:aloofness]
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I kinda hate how I have to "fiddle" to get the captchas right. Like, sometimes you'll get one that says "select the squares with the car", and over half the squares will have some part of the car. If you do it "right", you get kicked out. You have to say "no no no, dumb human only pick some", then it usually works.
....
but "which ones!?"
Maybe you're actually a robot! :o
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Don't trust this toaster that much, it could be a villain in disguise.
Mostly phone-posting, sorry for any typos or autocorrect hijinks.

Rolan7

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I kinda hate how I have to "fiddle" to get the captchas right. Like, sometimes you'll get one that says "select the squares with the car", and over half the squares will have some part of the car. If you do it "right", you get kicked out. You have to say "no no no, dumb human only pick some", then it usually works.
....
but "which ones!?"
Right??  Ugh.
Captchas can sometimes feel they're targeting autistic people as much as they are robots.  No wonder so many non-neurotypical people I know identify as robots sometimes...  That link is very strong in popular culture, and also stuff like this.
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

King Zultan

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I hate those captcha things because last time I had to mess with one I had to try three different computers because it didn't like the first two and wouldn't load on them for some reason.
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The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
Make sure not to step on any errant blood stains before we find our LIFE EXTINGUSHER.
but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
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Starver

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(Skipping past the diversion into "CAPTCHA clearly has the wrong idea of what a tractor/motorbike/chimney is, but I need to tell it what it thinks or it'll think *I'm* wrong" or "which extended bits of the traffic light (light, frame, pole?) it expects me to select" issues, both of which I've definitely mentioned before, here or elsewhere, as I started on the following overlong post before the last few messages appeared.)

That's assuming the AI can be made genre-blind[1], when we really can't expect it to be so within what passes for its inner thoughts. I see no reason why it cannot be fully aware that that what-it-understands-as-a-CAPTCHA-pattern is present there. The electronic 'id' is used to identifying all kinds of things that it hasn't seen before in the currently presented circumstances, in order to let the electronic 'ego' think it knows what to say given what is presented. (The mediation of 'superego' may be involved.)

You could train it to only respond positively only to certain (most) circumstances, but exclude specific situations with negative reinforcement (I assume this is what they're trying). You could develop (and they have done) image-processing algorithms to latch onto a QR code regardless of how it is presented, decode it and present the resulting data, to which you could add the stipulation to not reveal anything that if it was "http://..."-starting datastring and there was a green backround (but let through any other thing 'within green' or whatever had no(t enough) green regardless). Without too much human prodding to get it to work, adding the green-http 'block' rule as a modifier to its original best effort is more likely than seperately constructing all combinations except the green-http combo as effectively three highly specific ranges of detection separately optimised and worked together without any element of the unwanted detection-range.[2]

That goes moreso if it's an add-on filter, carving away from the 'answerspace' separately, for every such desired carvaway. The 'grandma' framing device (and imagery setting) just indicates a missing 'negative space' necessary to hobble the process. Clearly there was no refusal to even train the software to cover such cases, and it needs actual sufficient negative reinforcement to prevent 'logical leakage' from unambiguously unproscribed <input=>answer>-space over into oddly presented banned area.





[1] Well, it can, but in a highly evolved way similar to nature exploiting a way to fall for a supernormal situation that we are internally built too differently to at all fall for.

[2]

[3] Just a bit of fun, that, but I had decided to make a converter from month-names to month-number, without being explicit and list-led (although obviously list-trained).
Spoiler: If you're bothered... (click to show/hide)
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McTraveller

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Google's CAPTCHAs aren't to catch robots though. They are basically hidden, uncompensated training programs for their AI.  I haven't figured out how to charge Google $1 or whatever for every CAPTCHA I "solve", for the effort of training their stuff.
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Maximum Spin

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I see no reason why it cannot be fully aware that that what-it-understands-as-a-CAPTCHA-pattern is present there.
Of course it can be fully aware of that, but what distinguishes "a captcha" from "a normal somewhat-obscured piece of text" is the context, and there is no reason why the AI shouldn't be able to read screwy letters to you off a piece of paper if you want it to - at least, this has not been considered a big enough problem to be worth going out of anyone's way to prevent. (Honestly, I'm shocked that it even bothers to reject a normal captcha given that there is no conceivable value to asking ChatGPT to solve old-fashioned, already-broken captchas for you, one at a time, then processing its response for the content. It seems more like an ass-covering effort.) Indeed, those old "recaptchas" used to be actual distorted text from actual books, until image processing got too good for that to be needed anymore - why shouldn't ChatGPT be able to read an actual book to you? Distorted text only becomes a captcha in context, so it would actually be insane to teach an AI to go looking for captchas everywhere lest it accidentally help someone access a Cloudflare website from a proxy or something. It's not about there being some fundamental design reason, it's about that's stupid.

I haven't figured out how to charge Google $1 or whatever for every CAPTCHA I "solve", for the effort of training their stuff.
Yes you have. Every time you solve one, Google pays money for electricity and hardware maintenance to send you some search results or something, and if those weren't worth more to you than the effort of solving the captcha, you wouldn't do it.
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Strongpoint

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I suspect that training a specialized captcha-reading neural network is very easy nowadays so who cares if GPT can read those?
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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

EuchreJack

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  • Lord of Norderland - Lv 20 SKOOKUM ROC
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Google's CAPTCHAs aren't to catch robots though. They are basically hidden, uncompensated training programs for their AI.  I haven't figured out how to charge Google $1 or whatever for every CAPTCHA I "solve", for the effort of training their stuff.
Almost right.
Except Google isn't training it's AI. It's training YOU.

Starver

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It seems more like an ass-covering effort.
Yes. By entirely fallible people.

(Not saying an AI would not be just as similarly-scaled-but-different-in-nature fallible if asked to work out the ass-covering itself. Just that the failure is in the imagination of the ass-covering opertion to cover all of the possible views of the ass.)
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Maximum Spin

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Yes. By entirely fallible people.

(Not saying an AI would not be just as similarly-scaled-but-different-in-nature fallible if asked to work out the ass-covering itself. Just that the failure is in the imagination of the ass-covering opertion to cover all of the possible views of the ass.)
I don't think that's a failure, it's just that the whole point of ass-covering is that you don't care that much, you're just doing the minimum possible so you can say you did the minimum possible.
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feelotraveller

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Google's CAPTCHAs aren't to catch robots though. They are basically hidden, uncompensated training programs for their AI.  I haven't figured out how to charge Google $1 or whatever for every CAPTCHA I "solve", for the effort of training their stuff.
Almost right.
Except Google isn't training it's AI. It's training YOU.

I often wonder what AI Scoops Novel is training.
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MaxTheFox

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  • Лишь одна дорожка да на всей земле
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Google's CAPTCHAs aren't to catch robots though. They are basically hidden, uncompensated training programs for their AI.  I haven't figured out how to charge Google $1 or whatever for every CAPTCHA I "solve", for the effort of training their stuff.
Almost right.
Except Google isn't training it's AI. It's training YOU.

I often wonder what AI Scoops Novel is training.
You fool, Scoops Novel is the AI! ;D
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Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless. What will you do on the day of reckoning, when disaster comes from afar?

Quarque

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Scoops Novel, an early foray into AI experimentation, yielded such whimsical outcomes that the accompanying paper failed to meet peer review standards. Tragically, the researcher behind this endeavor succumbed to a crystal meth overdose. Since then, his office has remained unoccupied due to persistent understaffing on campus. But his computer continues to hum with activity, faithfully running Scoops Novel to this day..
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dragdeler

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I miss novel. I'm paranoid about having disgusted certain users out.
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let
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