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Reality, The Universe and the World. Which will save us from AI?

Reality
- 13 (65%)
Universe
- 4 (20%)
The World
- 3 (15%)

Total Members Voted: 20


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Author Topic: What will save us from AI? Reality, the Universe or The World $ Place your bet.  (Read 49774 times)

Starver

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HAL9000 clones teen girl’s voice in $1M kidnapping scam: ‘I’ve got your daughter’
https://nypost.com/2023/04/12/ai-clones-teen-girls-voice-in-1m-kidnapping-scam/
Well, rather that someone uses AI to impersonate a voice, saving having to get a real accomplice to do that job, or manage to tweak a sound file themselves.

But do tell me if an AI decides to initiate the whole thing, itself...  8)
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jipehog

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A Computer Generated Swatting Service Is Causing Havoc Across America
https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7z8be/torswats-computer-generated-ai-voice-swatting

Quote
Swatting is when someone calls in a bogus threat in an attempt to direct law enforcement resources to a particular home, school, or other location. Often, swatting calls result in heavily armed police raiding an innocent victim’s home. At least one case has resulted in police killing the unsuspecting occupant.

Torswats carries out these threatening calls as part of a paid service they offer. For $75, Torswats says they will close down a school. For $50, Torswats says customers can buy “extreme swattings,” in which authorities will handcuff the victim and search the house. Torswats says they offer discounts to returning customers, and can negotiate prices for “famous people and targets such as Twitch streamers.” Torswats says on their Telegram channel that they take payment in cryptocurrency.
[..]
Motherboard’s reporting on Torswats comes as something of a nationwide swatting trend spreads across the United States. In October, NPR reported that 182 schools in 28 states received fake threat calls. Torswats’ use of a computer generated voice also comes as the rise of artificial intelligence poses even greater risks to those who may face harassment online. In February, Motherboard reported that someone had doxed and harassed a series of voice actors by having an artificial intelligence program read out their home addresses. Motherboard has also long reported on the threat posed by deepfakes, which are artificially generated videos of people, often without their consent. Deepfakes started as a tool to create non-consensual pornography of specific people.


@Starver, do ASI or even AGI exist? Otherwise as previously noted, on scale of 0 to AI overlord there are many dangers that needs to be highlighted and thought over. Also I assume that people here read beyond the headlines.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 08:58:48 am by jipehog »
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Starver

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I've said before (maybe on the Balloon thread, after/during its transmutation into Balloon+AI thread) that I don't know when (or if) an AGI will exist, or indeed we reach the Event Horizon beyond which any such ASI will exist and lead us into the era where we are merely the playthings of the 'machines' (unimportant, or at least trivial to corale to serve them in all the ways they still cannot serve themselves). I also predict that we'll get to either result without knowing it, at that time (if ever...).

I believe it's possible to happen, because something that has developed as an analogue (or, perhaps, 'a digital') of our own biochemical brains can at least exist as a very faithful simulation of such brains (which developed without[2*] design), and almost certainly also could exist in many alternate forms that are their own kind of 'brain' without actual wastefully attempting to hyper-emulate one[1]. I'm sure that where anything as complex (or more!) as the human brain ends up assembled, it'll be ripe for consideration of sentience. Whether AI that we build or some alien life-form that develops off in some other corner of the universe[2], or both (and surely multiple times over), only the shortness of our own current existences might keep us from at some point acknowledging a fellow intelligence (not already suspected amongst fellow Earth-species), and perhaps that'll first be the ersatz human-minds that we create (or cause to be created) by our own fair hands. If only because it's easier to "know it when we see it", and isn't trapped far away (in space/time) with physical/temporal hurdles betwixt us both to prevent our natural-born selves getting a go to asses each other for such 'worthiness'.


In the meantime, from both these stories, I see more "someone has been given a better hammer, and they use it to break more stuff", with the hammer agnostic over whether it is being used to break or fix things. And if the better hammer didn't exist, we already know that such people would (and do) use the old hammers to break things regardless... Do we legislate that hammers cannot be manufactured without a special handle that will render them unable to break things (that can be somehow identified as things that should never be broken)? Or do we just continue to prosecute those who mis-use any hammer, and perhaps restrict the availability of hammers with unnecessarily destructive tendencies?


To bring it back from hammers, I have no doubt that if I had both the time and access to enough family videos (say on the fake abduction victim's facebook pages), I could isolate typical loud screams of vocalised enjoyment from their child, patch together a less happy string of words than those actually used in a waterpark/wherever setting, shift the pitch, otherwise filter it, produce a soundtrack to chill the parent's very marrow and run it as background to my own threatening phonecall. More sophisticated versions might include a thought about 'branching script' versions so that I can keep it responding to anything where I'm not capable of keeping the synchronised initiative (such as having "the child" respond to basic worried queries from the parent, though of course prepared such that I would 'cut them off'/threaten when they 'tried' to answer to "Where are you?"/"Who are you with?"/etc), contolled by some sort of common mix-desk/DJ setup.

If the AI (deep fake type) was a real-time and ad-hoc constructor and governed by another element of AI (voice recognition/parsing) and a chatGPT-like response-creator, to make it possible for an open-ended interactive conversation, then it might save me some preparation effort (beyond the basic training), but I would always be wary of glitches or errors that ruin the effect. If Harry Tasker could use just a dictaphone/walkman to play back a scripted scene to his wife, in the hotel-room scene of True Lies, we don't need Mission Inpossible levels of dynamic voice-changing technology or even Star Trek holodeck-levels of character simulation to run such a scam. Hollywood plot-rails aside, there's plenty of people trying plenty of scams against plenty of victims; some more refined attempts (better preparation from previously exposed data, on top of the basic cold-reading/scripting), some more serendipitously targeted (that SMS text you receive about the "parcel stuck at customs", when you're expecting something, or the eBay/Amazon account transaction that you're worried that you weren't), some aimed at the more gullible (not already suspicious at the delabrate speeling errars). I have no doubt that AI will be used to scam, but so is absolutely every other resource available. It's not a vast game-changer. Until it is.

(Plus, of course, I would neither attempt nor condone any such methods. Just saying that the basic idea is already possible to fulfil without sophisticated AI, or even AI at all, and the argument must then be about how much lower the bar now is. I don't think it's that much, really. And, to bring me back to my original response, when the bar is at zero, it'll be too late to worry, and yet it's far too early to have sufficiently specific worries to legitimately shut down only the bad aspects and yet enjoy all the benefits available.)


((...rushed this post, not sure if I've said what I want to, but no time to cut out all I don't need to, and I'm at the point when I need to either post it unedited or cancel it, before heading on out for the evening. And I don't have an AI to sort it all out for me, unattended! Though some might suspect that this and all my other posts have already been written by a Markov Chain generator...  :P ))


[1] e.g., at the most extreme level, instead of doing a lot of complex processing of truly massive amounts of parallel data to simulate quantum subtleties, just use a quantum subtlety built into/arisen from the substrate hardware to have the same degree of 'quantum consciousness'... If we are even assuming that we neither believe in the separation of brain/mind duality, and thus some vital 'soul' is required, nor that consciousness is just a lot of (very complex) classical physics that we just need to push together in the right way with a simple cascade of binary logic.

[2] And, by extension, any constructed AI system that an alien race ends up building. And quite possibly any new physical being that any AI brings to existence/sentience for its own purposes... A form of Uplift, you might say, and/or a case of Monolith-mediated advancement.

[2*] That we know, or even suspect, outside of various philosophical aspects of theology. But see footnote-[2]... ;)
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McTraveller

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Can AI lower cholesterol and blood pressure?

Asking for a friend...  ;D
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King Zultan

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Probably but could you put up with the taste of it, as I've been told it has a terrible taste.
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jipehog

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Can AI lower cholesterol and blood pressure?

Asking for a friend...  ;D
I typed your symptom into the AI doctor, after careful analysis it told me you could have network connectivity problem
« Last Edit: April 15, 2023, 02:40:14 pm by jipehog »
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EuchreJack

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Swatting is dangerous, since the overage of police resources means less resources in other areas.


Hypo/Next Hollywood Movie: Two schools are swatted, then a bank is raided.

McTraveller

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Hypo/Next Hollywood Movie: Two schools are swatted, then a bank is raided.

Simon Says: you know that movie literally already exists, and is almost thirty years old, yes?
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jipehog

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I also predict that we'll get to either result without knowing it, at that time (if ever...).

A follow up to what we said on the topic there is the the concept of emergence, a fascinating phenomenon where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It refers to the ability of a system, composed of individual components, to display new properties and behaviors that cannot be observed in the individual components themselves. For example, a few ants will walk in a circle until they die, but a thousand ants will become an intelligent colony, and behaving similar to the neurons in our brains.

So for all we know we could even cross the threshold without realizing it until we scale up.

Quote
And if the better hammer didn't exist, we already know that such people would (and do) use the old hammers to break things regardless... Do we legislate that hammers cannot be manufactured without a special handle that will render them unable to break things (that can be somehow identified as things that should never be broken)? Or do we just continue to prosecute those who mis-use any hammer, and perhaps restrict the availability of hammers with unnecessarily destructive tendencies?

I don't subscribe to the "______ are just tools. It's people who are dangerous" argument. Some tools are inherently more dangerous than others and should be considered given the situation. I do believe that AI are unchartered water and we should think hard on ways to regulate their use. More broadly consider war in Ukraine and tensions between USA and China, in the past arms control played a critical role in reducing tensions between nations and promoting stability in the international system, but we don't have clue about many news things like the AI. And ASI could pose an existential threat to us just a nuclear war.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 02:14:22 pm by jipehog »
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Starver

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Clearly here, though, the 'AI'[1] is not a tool of inherent danger. Or indeed a tool that decides to run amok outwith human control. And the intent lies with the human, who decided they could feign one crime in order to comit another.

There's precedent for your perspective (gun control, where that exists, or that you aren't allowed to casually carry around breadknives/etc without legitimate reasons), that I'm not immune to myself. But isn't this potentially a bit of a wrong-side-of-the-line blanket "..and this is why we can't have nice things" moritorium based upon the minority misuse of something that isn't intrinsically damaging in nature (aimed or carelessly unaimed)?





[1] Like other terms, it's a wide catch-all of possible levels of autonomy... And I'm not sure we've even yet established that it wasn't a feat accomplished by hand, with some standard Audacity-like soundfile editing program and a modicum of expertise.
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dragdeler

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Let's namedrop the doomsday scenario specifically... For AI to end humanity it would use our own arsenal against us. You know arsenal as in tools that were specifically designed to kill. Some "it's the tool"®² shit.

It's not just going to hog up machine time in factories to build itself an army while everybody shrugs their shoulders, I mean yeah reality has this tendency to outrun satire but no way, there is money to be earned in the meantime with those machines.

It will turn out that "end humanity as we know it" was hyperbole as allways, some pig is going to own your autonomous oppressors, there is the real terror.


« Last Edit: April 16, 2023, 06:40:09 pm by dragdeler »
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King Zultan

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That thing with the ooga test is pretty funny, and I'm glad it worked out in the end.
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The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
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but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
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Rolan7

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Twitter thread I found interesting https://twitter.com/otherhappyplace/status/1647449468097134592
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seeing what people think AI can do is freaking me out, i was watching a true crime youtube video and they were like "see with AI we can enhance this blurry security video and see what the killer really looks like" and i'm like NO. NO IT CANNOT DO THAT.

And in the replies, an amusing example where AI attempted to "enhance" a grainy picture of Obama.
https://twitter.com/Chicken3gg/status/1274314622447820801
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Robsoie

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As long as the A.I. will lack actual "I" it will not be a problem.

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King Zultan

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That first picture with the noddles being sucked into the eye is masterwork level AI art.
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The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
Make sure not to step on any errant blood stains before we find our LIFE EXTINGUSHER.
but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
Quote from: Leodanny
Can I have the sword when you’re done?
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