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[ChairmanPoo]

I daresay the war in Ukraine shows it'd be unwise for Iran to engage in an uncertain military adventure. Even if Russia ended up winning (or with a settlement that left them with more territory than when they started) the cost/benefit is clearly horrendous.  Azerbajan has an experienced & kind of modern army. In many ways their war with Armenia (which had a Russian style old-soviet-hardware type of army) predicted the course of the war in Ukraine.

Now. I suspect Iran's army is more modernized than Russia and odds are that their old soviet hardware will perform better But on the other hand "better shape than Russia" is a really low bar and I also suspect they are not eager to test its performance outside tighly co trolled scenarios, and fighting for some already contested land of questionable value for them is more likely than not not in the books

[Loud Whispers]

I suspect Iran's army is more modernized than Russia

AHAHAHAHAHA

GLORIOUS DEAR LEADER PUTIN IS OF MAKE COUNTRY GREAT AND STRONG

Surely now Russia will be able to finally overcome their great rivals and peers (in 30 years) like... Turkey, or Turkish Cyprus

[scriver]

The Russian drones were of Iranian make, right? At least sone of them.

[Lord Shonus]

The Russian drones were of Iranian make, right? At least sone of them.

Yes, the Saheeds. Which are one of the more effective weapons systems they're using.

I daresay the war in Ukraine shows it'd be unwise for Iran to engage in an uncertain military adventure. Even if Russia ended up winning (or with a settlement that left them with more territory than when they started) the cost/benefit is clearly horrendous.  Azerbajan has an experienced & kind of modern army. In many ways their war with Armenia (which had a Russian style old-soviet-hardware type of army) predicted the course of the war in Ukraine.

Now. I suspect Iran's army is more modernized than Russia and odds are that their old soviet hardware will perform better But on the other hand "better shape than Russia" is a really low bar and I also suspect they are not eager to test its performance outside tighly co trolled scenarios, and fighting for some already contested land of questionable value for them is more likely than not not in the books

The bigger issue for Iran is that they're not a nuclear power. Which means that if a major power decided that intervention was appropriate, Iran doesn't have the same trump card to prevent it. I don't know if any major powers would intervene here, but the possibility is dangerous enough for Iran that they're going to have to think very carefully about it.

[ChairmanPoo]

The major issue is that itd likely be another quagmire. I dont think theyd be too concerned about major powers because major powers are too invested in Ukraine right now. But even Turkey/Israel sending Azerbajan weapons might make it into a horrid slog

[Starver]

Usually, when people use the phrase "Leftist Mainstream Media", they're specifically excluding Fox News. It used to also be the phrase "Leftist Mainstream Media" also primary was said on Fox News, so it was kinda obvious that they weren't talking about themselves.

Don't know about anyone else, but "Leftist Mainstream Media" was not what was I responded about.

Spoiler: In more detail... (click to show/hide)

The actual quote:

Mainstream AKA leftist media [...tends to still support the War in Ukraine, etc]

Mainstream (aka leftist) media, is how that parses, for me. If you meant otherwise, you really wrote that wrong. (No worries, we all occasionally do that.) As put, though, the implication there is that all mainstream media is leftist. (It is, of course, for the batshit rightwingers; much as the same entities are entirely the voice of the right-wing establishment for other types with the opposite and likely equally crazy philosophy. But you still don't seem to me to be so far away from the middle-ground that you can claim that perspective.)

Much apart from my point that "leftist" does not map over "left-inclined", which I'll let slide due to overton windowing, Fox is (barely, perhaps) mainstream even while not being left(ist/ish/whatever). I would not exclude them from mainstreamness for being right-leaning, though they have perhaps significantly strayed from being 'media' on a number of occasions when the tail has done too much to wag the dog. Mainstream is a spread, not a singular global message. And, whether or not the centre-of-mainstream is off-centre as far as any perceived viewpoint, it's a broad church that necessarily has room to span across matters that are off-centre in both(/all, technically) directions.

And I think Fox has aspired to be mainstream, since its 'edgy' days of talking of "Leftist Mainstream Media" (which is a different meaning from "Mainstream Leftist Media", and both different from what you said). They certainly desire to be the "mainstream media for the right", but perceived failings in this regard have been taken advantage of by the likes of  Breitbart News or NewsMax, by my understanding (which are way beyond my usual sources for neas/comment, most of the time, so I'm not sure where they are now).

I suspect Iran's army is more modernized than Russia

AHAHAHAHAHA

GLORIOUS DEAR LEADER PUTIN IS OF MAKE COUNTRY GREAT AND STRONG

Surely now Russia will be able to finally overcome their great rivals and peers (in 30 years) like... Turkey, or Turkish Cyprus

Well, when they are apparently arranging for military assistance (in return for food..?[1]) from Kim's country, it seems to suggest an amount of desperation.

Which is not to say that the military might north of that particular DMZ isn't significant, but it seems more geared towards the local regional situation. And sending enough equipment to Russia to make a difference to its active military aspirations would surely mean stripping NK of significant amounts of its hard-won 'deterrent' level. Psychologically, I can't see the native military-industrial-complex production being diverted to export without some hefty form of recompense to fill some other gap in its attempt to maintain parity against the SK/ally enemy.

Which means that it's all rather funny and/or worrying, depending on how seriously we should treat the meeting of the leaders. (It might just be as meaningful as the fleeting detente with the prior US President, of course.)

edit: I wasn't aware that he'd actually started his trip yet, after the rumours over the last few weeks, but shortly after posting the above I came across this news item which covers some of the same speculation. Yes, "tourism" (more Little Green Men? But I was pondering either offers of Wagner-style instructors, or maybe something else) and agriculture. But indeed strong hints that there may be a space-tech dimension to this. Haven't heard what China thinks about this, though, given the on-off nature of Sino-Russian cooperation and more direct Sino-NKorean relations, could be either way.



[1] For the sake of ordinary Best Koreans, I would rather hope so. Some of that grain that they can't/won't export via the Black Sea due to the repurcussions from the hissy-fit over whether Ukraine can do so (with whatever hasn't been roasted by Russian rocketry). Either that or research levels in niche technologies, but I don't know how much help even Putin would give to assist NK's nuclear ambitions. Maybe just its rocketry. "For peaceful purposes."

[Maximum Spin]

I daresay the war in Ukraine shows it'd be unwise for Iran to engage in an uncertain military adventure.

I said "its perception of" for a reason. They see what they want to there.

[Strongpoint]

The bigger issue for Iran is that they're not a nuclear power. Which means that if a major power decided that intervention was appropriate, Iran doesn't have the same trump card to prevent it

|I am not entirely sure that it is still true and almost 100% sure that if it is true then it is not for long. Russia will transfer technologies or even their own nukes really soon.

[MaxTheFox]

I want to say Iran is the Fascist Italy to Russia's Nazi Germany, but that doesn't really work because Iran is somehow more competent.

[scriver]

Fun fact: There is a theory (i think it counts ad a conspiracy theory?) that Iran is behind the recent Koran burnings and succequent fallout for Sweden as part of some scheme to make Sweden look bad?

[Lord Shonus]

There's footage of the aftermath of a Ukranian drone attack on a Russian landing ship and Kilo-class submarine in drydock. The damages to the submarine aren't given enough focus to evaluate the damage, but the landing ship looks like a total loss.

Fun fact: There is a theory (i think it counts ad a conspiracy theory?) that Iran is behind the recent Koran burnings and succequent fallout for Sweden as part of some scheme to make Sweden look bad?

There's evidence that there's foreign actors behind it, but the more probable actor is Russia.

[bloop_bleep]

Behold, a meme so great, it puts even Girkin's shitposts to shame.

[Starver]

(Maybe I should scroll back for the News thread, but as claims are somewhat disputed by the MOD...)

Armed escalation with NATO may have been risked and avoided by incompetence plus equipment failure. The original reporting was already indicative of problems, of course, but now potentially add human errors (that cancelled themselves out).

[Il Palazzo]

There's footage of the aftermath of a Ukranian drone attack on a Russian landing ship and Kilo-class submarine in drydock. The damages to the submarine aren't given enough focus to evaluate the damage, but the landing ship looks like a total loss.

I'm seeing some claims from Ukraine that Starlink was - once more - shut down for the duration of the attack, stranding the drones before they could reach their targets. The damage would then be done by missiles only.

[King Zultan]

I thought they ditched that starlink thing awhile back, guess that means they couldn't find any alternatives.