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[martinuzz]

It's Iran, they will just shoot or hang anyone who protests

[EuchreJack]

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-western-vehicle-losses-not-big-win-for-russia-report-2023-9?amp
Western vehicle losses not a big deal, since they're designed to prioritize survival of the crews. I've been saying this ever since Western media has been trying to terrify with Bradley losses, but official journalists are finally clarifying better than I could.

I've noticed for a while now there's been a concerted effort on the part of our media, especially business-oriented media, to try to convince Americans not to support any more aid to Ukraine. Previously, it was, "well, the offensive's stalled, isn't it so boring and hard to care about now?"; now that that's become a hard claim to maintain, it's "Ukraine doesn't need any more tanks, those tanks did their job, everything's fine and you don't need to care about it".
Tanks aren't ablative armor, though.

Mainstream AKA leftist media tends to still support the War in Ukraine, including at least some aid, since it's literally the best possible war for making President Biden look good. American equipment destroying Russia with NO Americans dying. I'll take 4 more years of that!

[Starver]

Hearing "mainstream" and "leftist" being equated makes me laugh. Mainstream, around here includes leftwards and rightwards leaning outlets. "Leftist" I something I would class as a those more extreme, much as the 'rightist' equivalent, and I'm not sure actual left end of the political media is pro-Biden (though the more thoughtful bits recognise Putin as hardly their ideal "rising star in the East", not exactly exemplifying the socialist ideals they try to promote).

And then there's right-wing that makes Fox/GBNews/etc, look positively sane. Well... maybe not sane. But more mainstream than some other isolated rills off a side-creek of the whole sprawling news delta.


But it may be perspective. The McCarthy era (etc) clearly shifted the political window over quite a lick, stateside.

[Maximum Spin]

"left" and "right" have never been real terms with specific objective meanings since the end of the 1789 National Assembly. They're just used by people to categorize themselves and the things they individually hate according to personal taste. Arguing about the meaning is an insane waste of time.

But no, large sections of the American media have definitely been trying to wean people off Ukraine, for whatever reason. It's hard to miss. Maybe because progressives are traditionally anti-war and fear another Afghanistan.

this is unwinnable and will destabilize Iran with its large Azerbaijani diaspora.

Not at all. Iran's interest is in uniting the Azeris, of whom more already live in Iran than Azerbaijan, under its rule, something the Iranian Azerbaijanis seem to support. It's already made intimations that it would be willing to incorporate an independent Nakhchivan, which has considerable separatist sentiment, in a similar way to Russia and the LPR.

[hector13]

When people like EJ say mainstream media, they don’t mean mainstream media.

Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and the New York Post are also mainstream media. He’s not referring to them.

Edit for clarity

[heydude6]

You forgot to include CNN (though the study does).

What is Euchre referring to then?

[Maximum Spin]

When people like EJ say mainstream media, they don’t mean mainstream media.

Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and the New York Post are mainstream media. He’s not referring to them.

It sure is weird that you specifically pulled out only the fifth through seventh most mainstream, and didn't mention Disney News, CNN, the New York Times, or MSNBC.

[hector13]

I didn’t forget CNN, the three outlets I mentioned are right-leaning mainstream outlets, of which I imagine EJ would be aghast if I suggested they were among that grouping.

They did hire a former campaign manager for Trump as a political commentator though.

So yeah, EJ is referring to outlets that don’t explicitly agree with him or his world view, using the word mainstream in the manner I might use as a four-letter word. Well maybe not that manner I swear like a sailor, but you get the gist.

When people like EJ say mainstream media, they don’t mean mainstream media.

Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and the New York Post are mainstream media. He’s not referring to them.

It sure is weird that you specifically pulled out only the fifth through seventh most mainstream, and didn't mention Disney News, CNN, the New York Times, or MSNBC.

EJ covered them in his Mainstream AKA Leftist rant. I corrected that assertion by pointing out right-leaning mainstream media outlets.

[Maximum Spin]

Okay, so you just mean those are ALSO mainstream media. Yeah, that's fair.

[hector13]

Oh right you thought I mean they were the only ones. Nah, I get you now.

[Random_Dragon]

Yeah, EJ forgetting that Fox news exists is exactly why sane people don't take right-wing shitposts seriously anymore. They take for granted the fact that the cold war has seriously, badly shifted American politics a LOT more right-wing than the norm in the rest of the world, and instead keep moving the goal posts and insisting that anything left of letting billionaires hunt homeless people for sport is communism.

[Strongpoint]

Not at all. Iran's interest is in uniting the Azeris, of whom more already live in Iran than Azerbaijan, under its rule, something the Iranian Azerbaijanis seem to support. It's already made intimations that it would be willing to incorporate an independent Nakhchivan, which has considerable separatist sentiment, in a similar way to Russia and the LPR.

There were pro-Azerbaijan protests in Tehran during the last war, large enough to be dispersed with tear gas and stuff.

Are you implying that Iranian Azeri will be like - "Well, let's support Armenians who openly hate all Turks (and they see no difference between Azeri and Turks) in their war with other Azeris!" I seriously doubt it works this way.

Even those Iranian Azeri who believe that Azerbaijani should be reunited within Iran and that they should bring their misguided secular brothers back home may have some issues with a war of this kind. Especially if it will include stuff like ballistic missiles hitting Baku.

And don't tell me that there are no Iranian Azeris who would love to form a nice big independent Azerbaijan and will see such aggression as an opportunity to get one.

[Maximum Spin]

Of course there are, but it's silly to think this will destabilize Iran, a country that has been managing its diverse population of groups mostly at odds with each other through internal propaganda for over a generation now. Iran can suppress protests and sell the war to Azeris as "unifying Azerbaijan under the Iranian aegis" while also sticking it to NATO, and they never have to think about it as "supporting Armenians" just because they happen to be at war at the same time. It's not too different from Syria - Iranian Twelver Shia aren't exactly fond of Alawites either.

Frankly, the era of ethnic nationalism as a driving force for the dissolution of large states is over.

[Strongpoint]

I read it as - Iran manages to handle dissent for some time and this means it will be able to handle dissent forever even if they'll do a thing that will increase dissent and piss groups that are quite content now.

It doesn't sound convincing.

It's not too different from Syria - Iranian Twelver Shia aren't exactly fond of Alawites either.

It is way easier to sell. And Iranian involvement is quite modest, war with Azerbaijan will require far more men fighting. 

[EuchreJack]

Yeah, EJ forgetting that Fox news exists is exactly why sane people don't take right-wing shitposts seriously anymore. They take for granted the fact that the cold war has seriously, badly shifted American politics a LOT more right-wing than the norm in the rest of the world, and instead keep moving the goal posts and insisting that anything left of letting billionaires hunt homeless people for sport is communism.

Actually, I'm old enough to remember when Fox News wasn't mainstream media. Usually, when people use the phrase "Leftist Mainstream Media", they're specifically excluding Fox News. It used to also be the phrase "Leftist Mainstream Media" also primary was said on Fox News, so it was kinda obvious that they weren't talking about themselves.

Could we get back to discussing the War in Ukraine instead of my media biases?
(FYI, the news that I generally watch is CBS. What can I say, I actually like them.)