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[Deus Asmoth]

Webadict:

Max with no vote?

ToonyMan

I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.

Worst case he shoots anyway and misses leaving us probably at a 5 player lylo instead of straight up losing.

I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.

If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?

Why vote for Toony here? You've said that you disagree with the idea of a no-lynch which I get, but I don't see the link from that to voting Toony because of supporting that idea. The post you were responding to looks pretty consistent to his earlier idea of not wanting to vote for Tric, which you seemed to think he was town for before?

Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?

TricMagic:

Thinking on it, Jim. This would be Dues, but they haven't shown up. Could be christmastime..

You know, Dues, I'll just murder Jim tonight if he doesn't show.

I don't know if there's anything I'm meant to respond to here. I guess I'd like to know your reasoning if you didn't have a question.

[Jim Groovester]

@Jim:
I don't think Tric is with anybody, but at least you want to vote him because you think he's scum.

This is weird for me to say, but I'm seeing this premonition now where lynching Tric today loses us the game.

That's fair, but nobody's really pinging me except for TricMagic and maybe Deus Asmoth but I'm going to extend some slack to the latter because I think my misgivings might be meta quibbles.

I could maaaaaaybe go for Maximum Spin or you if somebody were to sufficiently convince me that either of you were somehow the superior Day 1 choice instead of TricMagic but it would have to be a really solid case.

[webadict]

READS

webadict - I'm finding myself on the same page as webadict on a couple different points so I'm inclined to feel like he's town here but this could be a game losing assumption.
ToonyMan - Fine I guess. He's not making me feel like he's town as strongly as he normally does but I don't have any particular objections to anything he's done.
Maximum Spin - Fine I guess. Not really objecting to anything he's done but like ToonyMan he's also not making me feel super strongly about him being town.
Knightwing64 - Fine I guess. I'd have a hard time saying this is scum Knightwing64 honestly.
Deus Asmoth - There are parts of Deus Asmoth's play I don't like and other parts I do like. I don't remember the last time I played with him but I feel like part of the reason why I dislike some of the things he's done is because he's playing a bit more like the older B12 style which I generally don't like that much and find suspicious whenever I see it.
TricMagic - Like I mentioned above I don't like that in his second post of the game he's deflecting suspicion by demanding people identify his partner. My opinion hasn't changed much or improved since then.

TricMagic is my strongest scumread but I'm having trouble identifying who he could be partnered with.

...  I don't think I believe you in this post here.  I don't know why, but I don't trust something.

TricMagic being your strongest scumread is a bad sign to me.  I don't have problems voting out TricMagic, but I'm not sure I see him being your strongest scumread here.  Maybe it's just the comparison I get, but it feels like you don't suspect anyone.  If Deus is the second most suspicious for playing in an older style (which I think makes sense because he played in older games), then is there inherently anything truly suspicious about him?  Him wanting to No Elim is something I remember from older metas, but if that's what you're latching onto, why is ToonyMan so Town to you?  Other than that, I'm not sure if I see much in the vein of older styles?

@Webadict:
I think mafia would be more afraid of a "wildcard" loose cannon than town would be.

I don't like how you don't think Tric is mafia but are still in favor of voting them.

Statistically, TricMagic has helped Mafia at a higher than average rate, so I don't see that as an unfounded worry.

I'll spin that accusation around on you:  I don't like how you're in favor of not eliminating someone but are voting for me when the outcome you're wanting to avoid (TricMagic killing a Townie) would be avoided by voting out TricMagic, especially as a claimed Doctor, which would doubly avoid the issue.

Would it be better if I said there's a chance that TricMagic is scum?  I don't really think he's scum, but that doesn't mean that his execution isn't a good backup.

Webadict:

ToonyMan

I disagree with this plan on several levels, but also for role related reasons.

If you want to control how Tric shoots, just use a vote, what the fuck, Toony?

Why vote for Toony here? You've said that you disagree with the idea of a no-lynch which I get, but I don't see the link from that to voting Toony because of supporting that idea. The post you were responding to looks pretty consistent to his earlier idea of not wanting to vote for Tric, which you seemed to think he was town for before?

Because ToonyMan advocating for a No Elimination isn't a sight I'm used to, and it feels incorrect here.

Is he implying that TricMagic cannot be persuaded to shoot as a secondary execution?  Is he implying that TricMagic is scum or unreliable?

It feels like No Elimination here leads to a second No Elimination Tomorrow or, even worse, a Miseliminate And Lose situation.  It is playing to avoid a loss instead of playing to win, and no one has provided a solid reason as to why that should happen.

[Maximum Spin]

Maximum Spin: You brought up the idea that Webadict was buddying with Toony before, but you're directly asking him to provide his read on me. Why are you asking someone who you already have said is doing scum behaviour to do your scum hunting for you?

That's a weird and somewhat shady interpretation.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking a player in a mafia game a question. It's actually kind of important. I wanted his read on you because it's useful information.
I have to give you the benefit of the doubt for not having played a game together that I can remember, but man.

I like that plan because it gives mafia an incentive to kill Tric tonight.

I'm firmly open to this plan.

Why do I feel like the weird one here?

If it helps, I wasn't really open to the idea. I just wanted to encourage him.

I have one last thing I want to say before day end but I don't want to say it YET. Don't let me forget though, it's important.

What difference does it make whether you say it now or later?

Uh, well, I just woke up and, right now, I can't remember why I was putting it off. I think I just forgot to say it when I should have, and then decided I should telegraph it ahead of time instead of bringing it up out of nowhere in the middle of the day. It's also possible that I then forgot again. Yesterday was a little weird.

I definitely need to get it out there before the day ends, though, so I'll just get on with it. I'm a (type of) miller. You can probably guess which player that means my role is based on, but I'm not going to confirm or deny anything.

[webadict]

Alright, guys, there's not a lot of time left.  Are we going to come to a consensus on voting or what?

[TricMagic]

Well, jim gives a point about Dues playing in an older style. And I can be convinced not to shoot tonight. Save it for later. On the other dragon claw, Jim also doesn't have any other scum reads but me. Which, fair, but you do need to tie me with someone else most times. Or call me a Mally drawing attention, but I'm self-aware enough to point such out.


I do have some reads though. Knightwing is probobly town. webadict and toony are arguing, so their is town in one of them. (at least.) And right now Max is also on my scumread list. So it's max/jim / webtoony.

The Nolynch arguments are probably the worst case, since we'd be on the defensive as a result here. We either start day 2 in the same spot as day 1, or worse off cause we're in Mylo.

[webadict]

Well, jim gives a point about Dues playing in an older style. And I can be convinced not to shoot tonight. Save it for later. On the other dragon claw, Jim also doesn't have any other scum reads but me. Which, fair, but you do need to tie me with someone else most times. Or call me a Mally drawing attention, but I'm self-aware enough to point such out.


I do have some reads though. Knightwing is probobly town. webadict and toony are arguing, so their is town in one of them. (at least.) And right now Max is also on my scumread list. So it's max/jim / webtoony.

The Nolynch arguments are probably the worst case, since we'd be on the defensive as a result here. We either start day 2 in the same spot as day 1, or worse off cause we're in Mylo.

If you're Town, keeping your kill for a Lylo situation is the best outcome, assuming you can convince people you're Town.  If you don't think you can convince people you're Town, then using your kill as a second vote is the second best outcome.

I can protect you Tonight, so there's no worries about you dying if that's what you're worried about.  I'll probably be protecting Max and you Tonight unless I come up with a target that's better, but there's not really much reason to think too hard about it.

I can't really tell on Deus, but maybe Max is right and it really is Jim + Toony.

[TricMagic]

Mine doesn't say it's a 1-shot though.. shrugs.

[ToonyMan]

It feels like No Elimination here leads to a second No Elimination Tomorrow or, even worse, a Miseliminate And Lose situation.  It is playing to avoid a loss instead of playing to win, and no one has provided a solid reason as to why that should happen.

I plan on voting someone tomorrow. I don't even think I should switch to no lynch right now since Tric is saying they're not going to shoot.

My ability is information based so if I'm alive D2 I'm slamming my results first thing (I realize there are roleblocks and redirects in this game, but regardless).

@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?

Mine doesn't say it's a 1-shot though.. shrugs.

I think it's correct to shoot someone if no one dies today Tric.

[ToonyMan]

I guess roleblocks and redirects aren't guaranteed, but I was just looking at the past game list and they existed there.

[ToonyMan]

I can protect you Tonight, so there's no worries about you dying if that's what you're worried about.  I'll probably be protecting Max and you Tonight unless I come up with a target that's better, but there's not really much reason to think too hard about it.

I can't really tell on Deus, but maybe Max is right and it really is Jim + Toony.

There's no reason to say your protect targets.

Your words feel malicious in nature here.

[Maximum Spin]

@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?

My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that game

It seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?

[Maximum Spin]

I feel like the two people I most need to worry about being mafia are web and Toony. Moreover, I don't think you're both mafia. So, why don't each of you tell me who I should vote for?

[ToonyMan]

@Max:
I don't see a miller in the previous game, where?

My role power doesn't really seem to be based on the player's actual role from that game

It seems to me like my role is more based on EuchreJack's interpretation of how the previous game worked. I assumed the other roles were also like that, so are you saying yours is exactly the power the player had?

I have one ability and works just like part of that player's role, it's not exact.

How would you feel about me targeting you tonight? This is no guarantee of course.

Some other comments: Knightwing's role in the previous game had a late clause which meant he couldn't use his one-shot kill until after D3. Tric has stated his kill isn't one-shot and there probably isn't a late clause either.

I feel like the two people I most need to worry about being mafia are web and Toony. Moreover, I don't think you're both mafia. So, why don't each of you tell me who I should vote for?

Well, we're not both mafia.

I feel like Webadict is mafia, and he seems to think the same about me. I currently can't tell if this is a bad misunderstanding between us. It's obviously very embarrassing when we're both town and make enemies of each other.

I think you and Deus are possible mafia, but I don't want to vote you. I haven't seen either of you really under fire yet. Both of you support no-lynching which might be a sign I'm on the wrong side.

I feel better about Jim, since Web is antagonizing Jim and I'm usually pretty good at reading Jim. This might actually make Web look better, since he usually misreads Jim as mafia when he's town while I correctly read Jim as town when I'm town.

I'm not considering Tric or KW.

[Maximum Spin]

Both of you support no-lynching

(I don't.)