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Author Topic: LGBTQ+ Thread  (Read 78855 times)

Great Order

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #345 on: January 14, 2023, 08:30:27 pm »

Oh yeah, there's a reason I used theoretically in there. We're just kind of shit at being a meritocratic species.
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Strongpoint

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #346 on: January 14, 2023, 10:02:31 pm »

Quote
And if some brains are just better suited for certain tasks, why would it be wrong to discriminate against someone with am objectively less qualified brain?

Does NBA discriminate against short people? No. The free market of NBA chooses individuals better suited for the task of playing basketball. And taller people are better suited for this on average but individual merit is the deciding factor.


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Is it really a good idea to stake out the position that it's perfectly reasonable and scientifically accurate to say, "The best person for this job is a man"? Or even, "Statisically, we should hire a man for this job as his brain is more likely the best for this purpose."

We already have a large group of people who are objectively worse in most professions. - People with disabilities. But no, it doesn't mean that an employer can deny every person with a disability (ignoring their actual skills and abilities) and not be rightfully accused of discrimination.


Point of Order: It was the alleged inferiority of the female brain that was used to deny women the right to vote and the right to own property. So fuck that shit.
[very sarcastic voice]
Yeah, we should not pursue knowledge and truth because people used to use unscientific biased "research" for discrimination (and some will still use and misrepresent whatever new data will be available)! Just forbid those unholy ideas of studying differences, ban them from science and eliminate any scientists who will dare to do any research on this unholy topic. [/very sarcastic voice]
 
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KittyTac

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #347 on: January 15, 2023, 05:47:16 am »

I came out as bi to my mom and she was surprisingly fine with it. :D
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Starver

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #349 on: January 15, 2023, 07:39:51 am »

Good example, although not neurological, is the military. Men are on average stronger than women, which is a desirable trait in the military.
Pain resistance and cooperation are also desirable traits in the military, often moreso than physical strength in a modern army, and women on average have the advantage there.
Possibly a more practical thing (not for the fleeting desires of society, but its longer term potential) is that if a male soldier dies, his contribution to posterity can be fulfilled equally well by any surviving male soldier at all. And, at least until it becomes a ridiculous amount, can double, triple or even far more his contributions by filling in for as many dead colleagues as are unable to return (or return 'intact') to fulfill their peace-time duties for the stay-at-home women of the nation who would be necessary to ensure that there's a future generation of the nation. And can even do their bit of non-military 'service' on a weekend pass or equivalent home-rotation. (Or, frankly, via any small container, properly handled.)

Whereas, with an Amazon Army, each battlefield loss narrows the options for the then typically nine-month-and-more bottleneck on home-front replenishment[1] and that may not be a happy situation, before even considering the excess of men[2] with far less 'war-work' to do, away from the more direct slaughter. And so clearly a standing army is more practical (in the long run) to be all-male than all-female.

Which is not to say that a mixed-membership service is less optimal than your tried and tested female-barring versions, either, and (even prior to full Brave New World attainment) not all of those nine months need necessarily be fully excused from at least support roles. But it might suggest that a battalion or three of post-menopausal recruits could swing the advantage of a war, if it gets that desperate, with few disadvantages and possibly a number of additional advantages. (Assuming you can tactically coordinate the perhaps useful mood-swings, etc[4]...)



[1] I know there's more time needed than that, but anybody could technically take over from that point. With 'uncles' and 'aunts' being logistically just as interchangable with whatever parent(s) you divert back to the front. If not fully amortisable into one-to-many creche-'commanders' who then instill an age-hierarchy over their young charges to streamline and regiment the process of reaching battle- and/or birthing-age themself which it sounds like this hypothetical perpetually-at-conflict society is going to do anyway, right?

[2] Assuming somehow men aren't otherwise infrequently available, and valued highly for every bit of contributive effort they can be pursuaded to give back at the 'farm', as such a precious commodity[3] to the female part of the population that it is now they who have to go into the martial sphere rather than have the option of choosing a marital one.

[3] I say... is this because of something back in the mists of time, much much earlier on in this multi-generational war, that was unleashed upon the region (nay.. the world!), somehow targetting the Y-chromasomes in a devastating (and possibly uncontrollable) strike against the roughly-parity but disproportionately armed populations of the instigator's enemies? I really think we need to know! And, naturally, it managed to cross back to the very place that developed it, too. Because of course it would.

[4] j/k! ...in case that needs to be said about much of this post. Once into the speculative hyperbolae, certainly.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 07:41:39 am by Starver »
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GadgetPatch

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #350 on: January 15, 2023, 10:55:06 am »

I came out as bi to my mom and she was surprisingly fine with it. :D

You love to see it.

I remember coming out to my mom, and her side comment about how she wasn't that surprised; always sensed some kind of vibe from me, but couldn't place it. Ended up being much less scary than I thought.

Congrats, and glad it went well!
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Great Order

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #351 on: January 15, 2023, 01:03:23 pm »

I came out as bi to my mom and she was surprisingly fine with it. :D
Eyyyy, nice one.
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Enemy post

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #352 on: January 15, 2023, 01:22:57 pm »

I came out as bi to my mom and she was surprisingly fine with it. :D

That’s great!
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Great Order

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #353 on: January 15, 2023, 10:39:51 pm »

I'm constantly checking my nipples for any breast buds, and every time they hurt I'm immediately going "Oh, is this it!?" which... it isn't because I'm irritating them a bit by constantly prodding them.

Brain's fucked.
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Rolan7

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #354 on: January 16, 2023, 11:58:49 am »

Me: "I didn't even know what transgender was back in high school!  I had no role models, no language for it!"
El Goonish Shive: Reintroduces a character who made me cry in high school because of their trans experience

how did I forget about this?  Well okay there was a lot going on in my home lives, and this wasn't *called* being trans, but wow

Character stuck in a terrifying monstrous shape all their life wakes up after transformation magic
It's just another dream... right?  I'm going to wake up and be gross again
Everything changed.  Which implied anything could change.
Please don't call me a woman, but I'm finally a human
I was never a man.  I just didn't want to disappoint people

Creator commentary: The character was going to be fridged, but the author took pity on them by making them female

Fishnets-guy and the anthro are the characters siblings, and I find their reactions heartwarming and relatable to my own.  Minus the underwear-poke, thankfully, it WAS a 2004 joke-a-day webcomic.

I'm running late but I need to dig up my favorite fics sometime, and also check out the ones Alway posted earlier!  A long time ago she shared this great one about a NB Republic Commando and a sentient CIS fighter, but AO3 has a astonishing amount of "trans clone trooper" hits O_o and I really gotta run
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Egan_BW

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #355 on: January 16, 2023, 12:05:33 pm »

Oh right, that's who that is. Somehow I didn't understand who I was looking at in the new page despite having read through the whole comic recently. >.>
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Rolan7

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #356 on: January 16, 2023, 12:27:46 pm »

I think she identifies as a woman and takes the name Vladia a few chapters later, but I barely remember.  The newest page calls her Vladia and I'm pretty sure people refer to her as a woman at some point.  Kinda looks like she's leaned in on that. 

Either way, just another of those magic gender-swap comics that I was strangely fascinated by ???
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Thorfinn

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #357 on: January 16, 2023, 02:06:44 pm »

Oh yeah, there's a reason I used theoretically in there. We're just kind of shit at being a meritocratic species.
It's not as bad as you make it out to be.

If you hire your incompetent son-in-law, eventually your house in Mar-A-Lago gets raided. Sooner or later, sub-optimal choices always come back to bite you, and the worse the choice, the worse the bite, and, often, the sooner the bite.

BTW, I only inquired about whether brain differences was a path we really wanted to go down because of all the posts from people talking about how there those differences were real and resulted in expression of gay, trans, whatever. Largely by people who seemed ostensibly to be from the pro-trans side.

Quote from: Strongpoint
We already have a large group of people who are objectively worse in most professions. - People with disabilities. But no, it doesn't mean that an employer can deny every person with a disability (ignoring their actual skills and abilities) and not be rightfully accused of discrimination.
But those are physical disabilities, and legislation was passed requiring businesses to make reasonable accommodation. To the best of my knowledge, that was only applied to a few mental disabilities, and only at the margins. For example, since climbing windmill towers and radio antennae is physically demanding, the business would not have to accommodate quadriplegics. Neither were they required to accommodate those with diagnosed suicidal tendencies, at least current ones.

Regardless, should we be be drawing on a precedent that relies on categorizing having a trans brain as being disabled?

Good point, Starver. I think a lot of it depends on how warfare develops. At the margin, a society which gets its females slaughtered is at a disadvantage. But imagine warfare as it evolves into 4th and 5th generation, where physical defenses mean at most defending a green zone, and most of the battle is fought by other means, whether terrorism, drones (another form of terrorism) or other less physically demanding tasks. I'm not sure that's a good way to force-evolve warfare, but it's pretty much unavoidable when you force-evolve the military into accommodating those less physically capable. Certainly we have no examples of Amazonian societies having been able to survive into modernity. Might there be in the future? Prediction is hard, especially about the future.
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Vector

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #358 on: January 16, 2023, 02:21:37 pm »

There are physically observable differences, such as a thicker corpus collosum in women.

I get frustrated because the feminist criticizers think that there's this big gotcha. But whatever downstream effects there are are not known. You can assert that there are observed differences between cis female and cis male brains without also claiming that women are naturally and permanently worse, or "intended" for particular tasks. The first does not actually provide evidence for the second.
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Strongpoint

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Re: LGBTQ+ Thread
« Reply #359 on: January 16, 2023, 02:36:33 pm »

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But those are physical disabilities, and legislation was passed requiring businesses to make reasonable accommodation. To the best of my knowledge, that was only applied to a few mental disabilities, and only at the margins.
It is not what I meant. With almost any job, people with certain disabilities will be worse (on average) but no sane employer will go for something like - "you know deaf people are on average worse at doing this job and I don't give an F about your actual skills. Go away.". Doing this will be outright discrimination.

It is like denying a woman a physical job even if she is far stronger than an average female, meets the requirements, and is no worse or even better than other available candidates.

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Regardless, should we be be drawing on a precedent that relies on categorizing having a trans brain as being disabled? 

Hey! Don't put words in my mouth. Especially something so... gross. I used disabilities as an example that even if we know that category X is (on average) worse at doing task Y, hiring not on the basis of the merit of an individual is still discrimination.
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